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Can they make a Steambox and sell it for cheaper than building your own PC?

#21Treason686Posted 9/26/2013 5:28:55 PM
turbovirgin posted...
I understand econmies of scale but there PC manufacturers that have been doing this for decades, why haven't any of them released a cheap gaming PC? What's so special about valve thats gonna allow them release better hardware cheaper than other companies?


No licensing costs. SteamOS is free and developed by Valve.
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#22fire2boxPosted 9/26/2013 6:29:25 PM
viserdes posted...
turbovirgin posted...
I understand econmies of scale but there PC manufacturers that have been doing this for decades, why haven't any of them released a cheap gaming PC? What's so special about valve thats gonna allow them release better hardware cheaper than other companies?


Maybe they can charge yearly fee for Steam (like Xbox Live) so they can afford to sell their hardware at lower price.

Please don't


I can't see Gabe being for such a tactic.
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#23JKatarnPosted 9/26/2013 7:46:36 PM
TimePharaoh posted...
ITT: Everything should be created specifically for me


He has a point though - they're not going to convert many console gamers at $750+ a box, and if their hardware doesn't present a modest savings over building with the same components, core/hardcore gamers will likely opt to build their own - unless they implement some sort of console-like method for auto-updating BIOS, drivers etc. for their SteamOS to take some of the (relative) hassle out of PC gaming. Also, selling at a loss and making it up on games sales/licensing like other consoles would likely drive away a Steam audience that is used to great deals and quickly dropping prices that help offset their upgrade costs.
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#24stmstrPosted 9/26/2013 8:52:01 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#25TimePharaohPosted 9/26/2013 8:56:09 PM
JKatarn posted...
TimePharaoh posted...
ITT: Everything should be created specifically for me


He has a point though - they're not going to convert many console gamers at $750+ a box, and if their hardware doesn't present a modest savings over building with the same components, core/hardcore gamers will likely opt to build their own - unless they implement some sort of console-like method for auto-updating BIOS, drivers etc. for their SteamOS to take some of the (relative) hassle out of PC gaming. Also, selling at a loss and making it up on games sales/licensing like other consoles would likely drive away a Steam audience that is used to great deals and quickly dropping prices that help offset their upgrade costs.


So now we're just blatantly making up prices to form the basis of a terrible argument with? k

And "Steam" has literally nothing to do with game prices, it's 100% the publishers. The Steambox could cost 18 million dollars or 15 cents, that has literally nothing to do with any game prices other than maybe Valves I guess
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#26ConkerPosted 9/27/2013 2:41:23 AM
TimePharaoh posted...
JKatarn posted...
TimePharaoh posted...
ITT: Everything should be created specifically for me


He has a point though - they're not going to convert many console gamers at $750+ a box, and if their hardware doesn't present a modest savings over building with the same components, core/hardcore gamers will likely opt to build their own - unless they implement some sort of console-like method for auto-updating BIOS, drivers etc. for their SteamOS to take some of the (relative) hassle out of PC gaming. Also, selling at a loss and making it up on games sales/licensing like other consoles would likely drive away a Steam audience that is used to great deals and quickly dropping prices that help offset their upgrade costs.


So now we're just blatantly making up prices to form the basis of a terrible argument with? k

And "Steam" has literally nothing to do with game prices, it's 100% the publishers. The Steambox could cost 18 million dollars or 15 cents, that has literally nothing to do with any game prices other than maybe Valves I guess


That's not making up prices. It's going off of general knowledge. If you think there is going to be a market for $750+ devices converting people from a PS4 or Xbox, you're crazy. So it's not really "blatantly making up prices" or even making a terrible argument. It's using common sense of the market and competition to know what could draw people in.

It's fair to say that a $500+ Android tablet right now is not going to compete against the iPad, as in convert users, unless it offered something much greater in benefit. But a $200 one could even if it didn't do the same things or offer the same quality. So in the same basis, a product for your living room to game on is not going to convert people from current brands unless it is roughly the same price and offers more benefits, or is lower cost.

Not sure why you're really acting like that is a "terrible argument" when it's pretty much completely obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense.
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#27HypnoCooshPosted 9/27/2013 3:07:53 AM(edited)
Conker posted...
TimePharaoh posted...
JKatarn posted...
TimePharaoh posted...
ITT: Everything should be created specifically for me


He has a point though - they're not going to convert many console gamers at $750+ a box, and if their hardware doesn't present a modest savings over building with the same components, core/hardcore gamers will likely opt to build their own - unless they implement some sort of console-like method for auto-updating BIOS, drivers etc. for their SteamOS to take some of the (relative) hassle out of PC gaming. Also, selling at a loss and making it up on games sales/licensing like other consoles would likely drive away a Steam audience that is used to great deals and quickly dropping prices that help offset their upgrade costs.


So now we're just blatantly making up prices to form the basis of a terrible argument with? k

And "Steam" has literally nothing to do with game prices, it's 100% the publishers. The Steambox could cost 18 million dollars or 15 cents, that has literally nothing to do with any game prices other than maybe Valves I guess


That's not making up prices. It's going off of general knowledge. If you think there is going to be a market for $750+ devices converting people from a PS4 or Xbox, you're crazy. So it's not really "blatantly making up prices" or even making a terrible argument. It's using common sense of the market and competition to know what could draw people in.

It's fair to say that a $500+ Android tablet right now is not going to compete against the iPad, as in convert users, unless it offered something much greater in benefit. But a $200 one could even if it didn't do the same things or offer the same quality. So in the same basis, a product for your living room to game on is not going to convert people from current brands unless it is roughly the same price and offers more benefits, or is lower cost.

Not sure why you're really acting like that is a "terrible argument" when it's pretty much completely obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense.


I would buy a console\pc hybrid i.e. Steam machine in the realm of $750 for sure assuming the specs and possibility of upgrading were solid.

Maybe you won't be converting console gamers but rather tapping into a new market of elite console gamers. I mean you have pc gamers and elite pc gamers. Why not have console gamers and elite console gamers?

Console peeps have been talking about specs this next gen like mad when in reality the console is still a closed box. If console gamers want to have more flexibility with their console why not make a hybrid? As long as there are games and it's still plug n play people will but it.

Just my opinion. I'm watching very closely the next 6 months to what Valve is doing they have my attention.
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#28ConkerPosted 9/27/2013 3:42:43 AM
I'm not saying they couldn't sell some units, but for much of the console market to convert or those "elite" console players that could buy a decent gaming PC for $750, it goes back to "what's the benefit to the consumer that is really marketable vs alternatives?" Again, unless as TC was "arguing," it is much more powerful than a PC at the same price or as low-cost as the consoles or cheaper.

I put it similar to the Surface RT, tbh. It offers little to no benefit to current tablet users because of the eco-system, specs are ok but nothing special for the price, and there are either cheaper or more powerful alternatives. So for someone in the market they just go, "I'll just get an iPad, or Kindle, or Nexus, etc." The "elite" people you speak of theoretically existing, are likely to go, "Hmm, PS4 or One...might as well save and get the value," or "I'll just get a gaming PC for a little more or on sale plus have the productivity," or even put a decent gaming GPU into the PC they likely already have.

So really this topic kind of hits exactly the issue at hand: It needs to be very competitive at either price or performance, or both.
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#29JKatarnPosted 9/27/2013 4:15:00 PM
HypnoCoosh posted...
Conker posted...
TimePharaoh posted...
JKatarn posted...
TimePharaoh posted...
ITT: Everything should be created specifically for me


He has a point though - they're not going to convert many console gamers at $750+ a box, and if their hardware doesn't present a modest savings over building with the same components, core/hardcore gamers will likely opt to build their own - unless they implement some sort of console-like method for auto-updating BIOS, drivers etc. for their SteamOS to take some of the (relative) hassle out of PC gaming. Also, selling at a loss and making it up on games sales/licensing like other consoles would likely drive away a Steam audience that is used to great deals and quickly dropping prices that help offset their upgrade costs.


So now we're just blatantly making up prices to form the basis of a terrible argument with? k

And "Steam" has literally nothing to do with game prices, it's 100% the publishers. The Steambox could cost 18 million dollars or 15 cents, that has literally nothing to do with any game prices other than maybe Valves I guess


That's not making up prices. It's going off of general knowledge. If you think there is going to be a market for $750+ devices converting people from a PS4 or Xbox, you're crazy. So it's not really "blatantly making up prices" or even making a terrible argument. It's using common sense of the market and competition to know what could draw people in.

It's fair to say that a $500+ Android tablet right now is not going to compete against the iPad, as in convert users, unless it offered something much greater in benefit. But a $200 one could even if it didn't do the same things or offer the same quality. So in the same basis, a product for your living room to game on is not going to convert people from current brands unless it is roughly the same price and offers more benefits, or is lower cost.

Not sure why you're really acting like that is a "terrible argument" when it's pretty much completely obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense.


I would buy a console\pc hybrid i.e. Steam machine in the realm of $750 for sure assuming the specs and possibility of upgrading were solid.

Maybe you won't be converting console gamers but rather tapping into a new market of elite console gamers. I mean you have pc gamers and elite pc gamers. Why not have console gamers and elite console gamers?

Console peeps have been talking about specs this next gen like mad when in reality the console is still a closed box. If console gamers want to have more flexibility with their console why not make a hybrid? As long as there are games and it's still plug n play people will but it.

Just my opinion. I'm watching very closely the next 6 months to what Valve is doing they have my attention.


The key is going to be usability - even "elite" console gamers are still console gamers, if they could tolerate/workaround PC gaming's foibles (and presumably were willing to layout the modest sum for a gaming capable PC), they'd be using one now. They want a machine that will take care of all software/driver/BIOS updates for them automatically, if it's just a standard PC with a new UI they likely won't go for it.
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PS3 | PS2 | PSP| Wii | 3DS | DS | X-Box 360 | X-Box | NES
#30Darkcloud20Posted 9/28/2013 5:37:44 AM
Conker posted...
Darkcloud20 posted...
Pyrotechnixxx posted...
Not only that, but since the Steam Machine will primarily run Steam games, that can sell at razor-thin profit margins and still make a killing on games.


Yeah only if people use it for that and don't just install a different OS on it.


I'm not really sure what your point is. Even if they install a different OS, they're still likely to buy games on Steam, thus making profit for Valve. Plus, the likely-hood of an average user that doesn't know any better or doesn't want to be inconvenienced is greater than those that would bother installing another OS, so they would likely stick with the out-of-box experience of a Steam Machine.


Well when the PS3 launched some scientific institutes bought a few hundreds of them to link them to a sort of super computer which was possible because of the linux support. This of course wasn't exactly great for sony because they made a loss with them.

And with a Steambox which uses standard PC hardware this might be even more likely to happen. Depending on the price it may even be bought by many people as a HTPC.

And if they sell them at $100 loss and assuming steam gets a cut of 20% (which actually seems to be a rather high number, I heard GOG has something around that and they are known for taking a high cut) that means that they would have to make $500 more on average on software than they do now. Which is kind of unlikely.
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