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Sorry, but Counter Strike GO sucks

#111ShebeskiiPosted 9/30/2013 2:16:36 PM
Orestes417 posted...
We're not talking about just iron sights, we're talking about major systemic updates. CS2 if you will. New rules, new strategies, same soul freed from the decaying corpse of the late 90s.

As for being "casual" I'm pretty decent at Battlefield but it's true I don't and won't play competitively. That said, I could lecture you for a good long time on pretty much every facet of that series (though I am admittedly rusty at Vietnam). I also spent the better part of the last 7 years as a raiding shadow priest and could go on at great length into what they *****ed up every last patch for most of those years.


Playing competitively is the difference.

I have no issue with people who play for fun. It's like people who play street basketball. They might not always follow the rules and they're not always hyper competitive. Totally cool. But those people shouldn't turn around and say the NBA needs to change it up.

Competitive strategy and tactics comes from the inherent restrictions and rules. How fast you move or what guns you have or how the guns behave are very much like the passing and traveling rules of a modern team game. They're there to moderate the pace and balance things out to avoid incredibly cheap plays.

What could we do to CS:GO? Let's brainstorm.
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#112DarkZV2BetaPosted 9/30/2013 2:17:59 PM
I hated CS over 10 years ago, but it's pretty fun now.
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#113Worknofun370Posted 9/30/2013 2:21:35 PM
JonWood007 posted...
Worknofun370 posted...
JonWood007 posted...
That's what I'm arguing CS is like. You see, sometimes when you don't have the best resources at your disposal to make a game, you have to cut corners and use your imagination. And compared to modern shooters, CS has very flawed mechanics. Just, the general feel of the game is off.

.



Now, by all means toss me into the "Fanatical fans of the game" if you wish. However, to quote a great movie, The Big Lebowski, "That's just like... your opinion man."

I keep seeing you say how the mechanics are flawed, or the feel of the game is off. But your only argument for that is "It's hard to shoot" or "It's not as easy/the same as modern games." Maybe i'm completely missing something here, but that's really the only thing i've gotten from your argument so far (And I easily am missing something here, so if I am by all means point it out.)

If i'm not missing anything, and that pretty much is your argument... then that's not flawed mechanics, that's not "cutting corners", nor is feel of the game off. That's just you not liking the style of the game. Also, it seems that anyone who does like that style is just a fanboy... rather than, you know... someone with a different opinion.


The point I'm trying to make is that its an artificial handicap. The original CS game came out in the 90s, not exactly an era of good video game mechanics, and the community resists modernization because to have intuitive mechanics that work is seen as "casual".

This is about a game being intuitive or not, or its user friendliness.

As I said, this is like saying that the relative clunkiness of MK64 controls and the fact that you're much more likely to hydroplane off the road due to the aged mechanics is a "feature", rather a limitation in programming skills.

That's my main problem. The poor mechanics in the game are the product of the limitations in adequately making user friendly controls in the 90s, especially when you're trying to simulate recoil. Gaming has improved significantly since then, but people cling to CS's unintuitive and user unfriendly control scheme and keep touting it as a feature.



*sigh* Please stop saying poor mechanics if you're not going to make the argument as to what those really are. The only argument you're making is "I didn't like the game." Which is fine, you don't need to like the game. Hell you can even say "because of the controls I found it very difficult." That would likely be true as well.


But, you're failing hard at actually supporting the claim that CS:GO has poor mechanics. So... if this the argument you're trying to make than yeah, you're just arguing that you find it hard to shoot in the game, or that it's not the same as modern games. Which is a completely fine reason to dislike a game.

Also, yes... people actually enjoy the style of cs:go that you so dislike. To them it's a feature/plus... you can really get over that fact any time now.
#114Orestes417Posted 9/30/2013 2:22:37 PM
Shebeskii posted...
Orestes417 posted...
We're not talking about just iron sights, we're talking about major systemic updates. CS2 if you will. New rules, new strategies, same soul freed from the decaying corpse of the late 90s.

As for being "casual" I'm pretty decent at Battlefield but it's true I don't and won't play competitively. That said, I could lecture you for a good long time on pretty much every facet of that series (though I am admittedly rusty at Vietnam). I also spent the better part of the last 7 years as a raiding shadow priest and could go on at great length into what they *****ed up every last patch for most of those years.


Playing competitively is the difference.

I have no issue with people who play for fun. It's like people who play street basketball. They might not always follow the rules and they're not always hyper competitive. Totally cool. But those people shouldn't turn around and say the NBA needs to change it up.

Competitive strategy and tactics comes from the inherent restrictions and rules. How fast you move or what guns you have or how the guns behave are very much like the passing and traveling rules of a modern team game. They're there to moderate the pace and balance things out to avoid incredibly cheap plays.

What could we do to CS:GO? Let's brainstorm.


There's your problem. You're framing it as what we could do to CS:GO. The answer to that is put it on the shelf and do something new. Better to start clean than try WoW style midstream reinventions.
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#115ShebeskiiPosted 9/30/2013 2:27:31 PM(edited)
For example:

Why no iron sights?

This is easy to answer for any long time serious player.

The lack of iron sights increases the skill ceiling on precision shots. Why is this important?

Because CS is a very choke point based game. The maps are designed around choke points. Why is the game designed around choke points?

Because the game works on team placement, or the assignment of team members to strategic points based on these choke points.

The lack of iron sights balances out the attacker-defender dynamic. Defenders would have a massive advantage with more precision to all weapons. You'd have to rework everything, and it may never make sense given the mechanics of the mouse and the skill of players.

There's also the fact that CS relies on ROTATION. If a choke, or multiple chokes are reasonably guarded, the attacker can ROTATE and force movement. Now the attacker, who has planted the alternative bomb site, is actually the defender. The defense mechanic flips to the opposing team and remains balanced.

As an aside, the lack of iron sights also allows for fast response time and quick management of team positioning. Everyone is always aware of their surroundings and anyone making positioning changes is lethal and aware. It increases communication and general team awareness. To balance this out snipers are in near tunnel vision with mediocre mobility.

The lack of iron sights allows a dynamic shift in the control of space. Space can be controlled, but not with an iron fist (pun not intended). The AWP takes this role of complete lock down, and requires money and team investment to maintain, especially in an even game.
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That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
#116itzzsinnedPosted 9/30/2013 2:46:30 PM
Don't know how people are still arguing about this. CS:GO does not feel like a CS game.

-The movement is too fast, so basically holding angles isn't viable in this game.
-The AWP is extremely inconsistent. Shots seem to go through people for some reason.
-The P90 is overpowered. Top 3 NA player DaZeD, as well as others, have pointed it out and Valve hasn't done a thing about it.
-Shooting in midair is viable (jumping and shooting, falling and shooting). Also the scout is 100% accurate in midair now.
-For the past two months, people have been able to see enemies through smokes via the radar.
-Spamming adadad while spraying works in this game.
-Spamming adadad while bursting is a viable way to dodge bullets because the movement is so quick.
-The spraying pattern does not feel like it did in previous CS games. Spraying at the ground equals headshots in CS:GO.

I could go on for days.
#117blade6321Posted 9/30/2013 2:56:16 PM
JonWood007 posted...

This makes the game unsuitable for people who just want to play casually.


Not all games have to aim for the entire market.

These sorts of games have their audience.
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#118Orestes417Posted 9/30/2013 3:17:14 PM
I'm not entirely sure how you think there'd be a huge advantage to precision shots for the defenders. I mean yeah, defenders are naturally in a stronger position but bullets work both ways.
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#119blade6321Posted 9/30/2013 3:56:33 PM
Orestes417 posted...
I'm not entirely sure how you think there'd be a huge advantage to precision shots for the defenders. I mean yeah, defenders are naturally in a stronger position but bullets work both ways.


Um

If you have to take x seconds to ADS in order to shoot accurately, don't you think this would give an advantage to whoever's defending? If one person has their sites trained on a door then the other person having to stop and ADS really hurts- never mind the movement speed decrease.

I'm yet to see a valid reason for sights other than 'but it's easier for CoD babies'.
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#120Orestes417Posted 9/30/2013 4:14:51 PM
And I've yet to see a valid reason for it not to be integrated into the series by now other than we're too attached to the past to tolerate adaptation. As for dealing with campy mccamperpants sitting ADS'd watching a door, I'm pretty sure I just got done saying defenders have a natural advantage. That said, dealing with campers is nothing new in the FPS world.
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