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This priacy article B.S. or legit?

#31jamieyelloPosted 10/4/2013 11:06:39 PM
JKatarn posted...
CourtofOwls posted...
of course it's bs
disney could've made another billion dollars off of iron man 3
fast & furious 6 only made $778 million,that's not enough to add another floor to the rock's mansion dammit!
world war z barely passed $500 million...tragedy! i hear brad pitt has to do a sequel to johnny suede just to make up the piracy loss from it because they won't give him another role to add another ferrari to his collection until he does!
oh the damages! in fact i'm quite sure it's directly responisible for the declining econmy and sky high unemployment rates


Where your little diatribe breaks down is the many smaller game developers etc. who release their products at a reasonable price, pour their hearts and souls into the games - offer demos/trials and no invasive DRM etc. with plenty of replayability and content/bonuses etc. and lament that people STILL pirate the game left and right - JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN. When you have people pirating useful/fun apps/applications and quality and very affordable games because they can, you don't have any moral highground to stand on. Pirates always use this tired "patriotic stand against 'the man' " diatribe to cloak their petty behavior.


Ye come seeking adventure and salty pirates, eh? Aye, you've come to the proper place. You seek the legend. You seek Captain Jack Sparrow. But heed this warning: only a true pirate be fit to sail with Captain Jack. And that methinks is a perilous voyage for even the bravest of seafarers. So, then, who among you thinks ye has what it takes to join Captain Jack's ruddy crew? Say 'aye!'
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#32The cranky hermitPosted 10/5/2013 7:19:50 AM
Here's recent study by the London School of Economics in some crazy sloppy British font that doesn't render correctly in Firefox.
http://www.lse.ac.uk/media@lse/documents/MPP/LSE-MPP-Policy-Brief-9-Copyright-and-Creation.pdf
To sum up the contents: Piracy actually boosts revenue.

That was posted already, and that's not what it actually concludes. Unless you also think that shrinking numbers of pirates cause global warming.

This
Not being able to pirate wouldn't mean I would've gone out and spent 5000$ worth of ps1/snes games. <_<

It would mean you'd have to spend what you can afford on the games you want the most, many of which are likely available on PSN/VC at discounted prices. Instead you have no requirement to spend a dime. So no, you cannot claim that your piracy hasn't resulted in a loss of sales.

Actually it holds some merit. Back in the early, early days of Napster, I used to download a ton of songs, mostly from fairly obscure bands whose records cost $25+ to import. I bought hundreds of dollars worth of music that I would not have bought if I could not have sampled it first via Napster.

A couple of people making this claim does not constitute a "group." Again, if any significant number of people pirated in order to "demo," games with demos would be pirated less. They are not. Furthermore, this is about games, not music - there are a number of differences which prevent conclusions about music to easily transfer to games.
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#33_GRIM_FANDANGO_Posted 10/5/2013 7:27:17 AM
There is nothing in that piece of text that even remotely suggests that piracy does not have a negative effect on the entertainment industry.

I am not saying it does or does not. I do not know.

However, a line like
"TorrentFreak says that independent data actually suggests that those who pirate content are also more likely to spend their money on film, music and gaming content."
means nothing. What can you learn from that? That those who pirate spend more money on film and music. But is that because they pirate? Or are they people that consume a lot of film and music and therefore also pirate in addition to their purchases. Does it not sound reasonable that someone who loves movies and watches a lot of movies both downloads and purchases more movies on average than someone who does not? Also "spend more money of film and music" does that include movie and music experiences you can not "pirate" like going to the movies and going to concerts? If it does, that severely changes the interpretation of what they are saying. The more I think about it, the more holes there are. To the extent that it is no longer informational in any way.

"nearly half of all U.S. Internet users pirate copyrighted material, nearly half of those individuals say they would willingly pay a monthly fee for unlimited access to multimedia content.".
So would that not suggest that if pirated content was not available they would actually pay for the things they are downloading and watching/listening to now provided there would be a useable alternative? Also, when it comes to these kind of questions where there is a very clear morally correct answer, there will always be a difference between stated behavior and actual behavior. I have not read the study, but if they present this as some kind of accurate objective measure of what people would actually do, it must be really terrible.

Real crap story.

Though I agree ( if I read between the crap lines correctly) that embracing people's desire to download content wherever and whenever on any device they want, is a lot better than trying to keep them from doing so. One thing that is essential is that people are no longer paying for the product. The product is "free" in some ways. But we have seen, with Steam for example but also Spotify and others, that people are willing to pay if the service is superior. What the entertainment industry is suffering from is that people can illegally download anything in HD and watch it on anything. There are no legal options that provides the same kind of flexibility and "service". This makes the actual official product you buy inferior in some ways. In that kind of scenario you are asking a lot from people to keep buying your product. One example used to be American series in Holland. Sure, I want to watch these great series, and personally I did watch (or record) them on TV. But you are also asking me to wait for months after episodes are released in the US, and only give me the option to watch it on my TV. I have to be really disciplined to purchase your product the way you want me to.It is not even about money.

When someone says that "a study found that this and that" without even providing a reference, that is immediately a red flag. You can probably find some study somewhere for any finding you want to use in your article. But how are we supposed to know whether we should value this new information when you give us no way to assess the quality of it?
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#34JKatarnPosted 10/5/2013 12:03:45 PM
Lvthn posted...
The cranky hermit posted...

The one about "just to demo" is nothing but BS rationalization. It is not statistically relevant enough to consider a group. If it was, games which actually had demos would be pirated at a lower rate than games which don't. They are pirated at the same rate.


Actually it holds some merit. Back in the early, early days of Napster, I used to download a ton of songs, mostly from fairly obscure bands whose records cost $25+ to import. I bought hundreds of dollars worth of music that I would not have bought if I could not have sampled it first via Napster.


In fairness I imagine your situation is very rare among pirates, most pirated/pirate because they can and see no need to pay content creators for their work.
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#35Black_AssassinPosted 10/5/2013 12:38:36 PM
SinisterSlay posted...
Pirates that never buy
Pirates that pirate just to demo and then buy
pirates that have to pirate because the media is not made available to purchase.

Any other groups?

Pirates that download undubs?
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#36LvthnPosted 10/5/2013 12:43:59 PM
Black_Assassin posted...
SinisterSlay posted...
Pirates that never buy
Pirates that pirate just to demo and then buy
pirates that have to pirate because the media is not made available to purchase.

Any other groups?

Pirates that download undubs?


I wonder how many remember that fan subs were "pirated" media long before the internet grew to popularity, much less had the capacity to support large video downloads.
#37DaedalusExPosted 10/5/2013 12:45:53 PM
The cranky hermit posted...
Again, if any significant number of people pirated in order to "demo," games with demos would be pirated less. They are not.


Not necessarily. Demos, like trailers, are constructed by the company to portray the game in the best possible light in hopes to elicit a purchase. They are not necessarily an accurate representation of the full product. In other words, "demos" are not so much demos as they are a sales pitch, so it's perfectly plausible that someone would use piracy as a tool to more accurately sample the product before purchasing.

Furthermore, the general lack of demos for most games may lead some people to assume there is no demo for a game when in fact there is. Some people may pirate the game in this unawareness, contributing to your statistic.
#38ForeverZero2Posted 10/5/2013 1:10:42 PM
for me at least piracy is indispensable when it comes to niche and obscure games, it would be pretty hard to expand my horizon since most of the better games tends to be the bigger titles
#39-CJF-Posted 10/5/2013 1:16:59 PM
I think piracy as it exists today doesn't have much of a negative impact on sales in the industry at all. However, if the copyright and the DMCA were repealed like many pirates are pushing for, knowledge would spread and downloading would become more rampant, at least, if it was "officially" made legal to do so. In that sense, it would become the new standard to download content rather than pay for it and those working in the entertainment industry would have to make their money exclusively from things such as concerts and publicity events.

As it exists today, piracy is common because of the industry itself. In many ways, piracy is shaping the industry by defining new standards. Things like the virtual console would probably not even exist if it weren't for people ignoring copyright laws and creating emulators. Many commercial grade services still do not offer the same quality and standards that people can get for free. This is a problem for the industry.

We live in a world where the consumer can go out of their way to purchase low bitrate MP3 songs for a dollar a pop from official options such as iTunes, or you can download the whole album for free in high quality FLAC. You can't even legally backup your own DVD or Blu-ray film that you purchased because the DMCA makes it illegal to break the copyright protection. If the industry really wants to curb piracy and promote legal sales, they need to offer the consumer a better option, just as Gabe said.

Valve has the right idea with Steam, I don't know why the movie and music industry doesn't get it. They are still stuck in the mindset of the cassette and pre-VHS days, meanwhile, technology and the world has moved on. We live in a world where trying to get people to purchase the same film everytime there is a quality update or platform shift is just not going to work anymore.

Get with the times!
#40The cranky hermitPosted 10/7/2013 11:47:25 AM
Not necessarily. Demos, like trailers, are constructed by the company to portray the game in the best possible light in hopes to elicit a purchase. They are not necessarily an accurate representation of the full product. In other words, "demos" are not so much demos as they are a sales pitch, so it's perfectly plausible that someone would use piracy as a tool to more accurately sample the product before purchasing.

No, I'm afraid it isn't plausible. I didn't say demoed games merely get pirated too. I said the existence of a demo has no measurable reduction on piracy rates whatsoever.

If even 1% of a game's potential pirates played a demo and were satisfied that the full game was not for them, then there would be reduced piracy for that game - after all, they wouldn't need to pirate a game if they knew they wouldn't enjoy it. This is not the case, therefore either your proposal is implausible, or you must believe that demos ALWAYS succeed in portraying the game as worthy of playing, for nearly everyone.

Furthermore, the general lack of demos for most games may lead some people to assume there is no demo for a game when in fact there is. Some people may pirate the game in this unawareness, contributing to your statistic.

Again, that fails to account for the statistics. Demos have ZERO impact on piracy rate. "Some" people unaware of demos could not explain that. You would have to deny that any pirate is aware of the demo.

I think piracy as it exists today doesn't have much of a negative impact on sales in the industry at all.

I think you don't have any sort of information to justify a claim like that, and that this is wishful thinking.

However, if the copyright and the DMCA were repealed like many pirates are pushing for, knowledge would spread and downloading would become more rampant

Damn few pirates are "pushing" for that. And it's real cute how you're trying to use "spread the knowledge" as a euphemism for freeloading episodes of Game of Thrones.

In that sense, it would become the new standard to download content rather than pay for it and those working in the entertainment industry would have to make their money exclusively from things such as concerts and publicity events..

And that would set the entertainment industry back to the 18th century. Video games would be reduced to MMORPGs and ad-sponsored Facebook games - Rockstar can't make money on GTA through concerts and publicity events! No more books, no more movies, no more big budget TV shows. Even the music industry would have to change a lot - selling albums in stores would be a waste of time, and you'd have to go to a concert to hear your favorite songs at all.

As it exists today, piracy is common because of the industry itself.
Bull****. The industry conducts business the way any other tertiary industry does - they offer a product/service for a price, and customers pay it. Piracy is common because people like free stuff and see piracy as a convenient and risk-free way of getting free stuff. It has f*** all to do with the "industry."

And GabeN's quote about adapting to piracy is smug and self-serving. Valve barely invests at all in the games that Steam offers. They stand to lose very little to piracy of other people's games. The actual developers and publishers stand to lose nearly everything. Currently the best way for them to deal with piracy is to hedge their bets and focus on consoles/handhelds/social media, not by focusing on trying to compete with it.
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