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Can visual novels really be considered games?

#21TimePharaohPosted 10/14/2013 5:08:11 PM
Well dumb people were saying Bioshock Infinite was GOTY, so apparently they are.
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#22aiagfqPosted 10/14/2013 7:48:58 PM
For me, as long as you can make a single choice throughout the entire experience, and this choice affects how conclusion, then it's a game. If you're playing a game to hook up with A-chan but end up with B-chan or single, you lost the game.
#23TimePharaohPosted 10/14/2013 7:52:07 PM
aiagfq posted...
For me, as long as you can make a single choice throughout the entire experience, and this choice affects how conclusion, then it's a game.


So what you're saying is that the vast majority of Atari/arcadey "games" aren't games because no matter what you do or choice you make (such as dying or continuing), you're going to eventually lose because the game doesn't end, thus nothing you do can ever effect the conclusion whatsoever?
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#24DiviDudePosted 10/14/2013 7:56:05 PM
aiagfq posted...
For me, as long as you can make a single choice throughout the entire experience, and this choice affects how conclusion, then it's a game. If you're playing a game to hook up with A-chan but end up with B-chan or single, you lost the game.


So a choose your own adventure book is also a game?
#25akuma634Posted 10/14/2013 7:58:03 PM
I don't really get the whole visual novel thing. As far as the "what is a game" debate goes, I'm a huge fan of graphic adventure games and the more modern versions where pointing and clicking has been replaced by controllers such as Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, Walking Dead, and so on. Those often have much more interactivity and gameplay then most action games. In an action game you watch cut scenes, kill 100's of bad guys, watch more story, and play down a linear path to the scripted conclusion. In an adventure game, especially the modern kind, you're always in control like Heavy Rain where every action is at your command and cut scenes will only take you out of control if the plot deems it 100% necessary for the story.

A visual novel doesn't sound like there's even the adventure aspect. You just read and pick what options you have. That actually is something you could watch on YouTube with different choices shown and not miss anything. With Heavy Rain it's like you could watch somebody play it but the choices wouldn't be yours and the very intense moments like chases and fights won't feel nearly as intense as they would if you were in control. You're just gimping the experience by watching somebody else having all the fun. I'd put visual novels with what they are, it's some Japanese novelty that people have fun with.
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#26blade6321Posted 10/15/2013 1:32:42 AM
akuma634 posted...
I don't really get the whole visual novel thing. As far as the "what is a game" debate goes, I'm a huge fan of graphic adventure games and the more modern versions where pointing and clicking has been replaced by controllers such as Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, Walking Dead, and so on. Those often have much more interactivity and gameplay then most action games. In an action game you watch cut scenes, kill 100's of bad guys, watch more story, and play down a linear path to the scripted conclusion. In an adventure game, especially the modern kind, you're always in control like Heavy Rain where every action is at your command and cut scenes will only take you out of control if the plot deems it 100% necessary for the story.

A visual novel doesn't sound like there's even the adventure aspect. You just read and pick what options you have. That actually is something you could watch on YouTube with different choices shown and not miss anything. With Heavy Rain it's like you could watch somebody play it but the choices wouldn't be yours and the very intense moments like chases and fights won't feel nearly as intense as they would if you were in control. You're just gimping the experience by watching somebody else having all the fun. I'd put visual novels with what they are, it's some Japanese novelty that people have fun with.


Well it's like reading a book, but interactive and with pictures. Heavy rain is more like an interactive movie. They're not a 1 for 1 comparison.

And there's not enough good graphic padventure or whatever to go around anyway.
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#27DiviDudePosted 10/15/2013 1:19:45 PM(edited)
akuma634 posted...
That actually is something you could watch on YouTube with different choices shown and not miss anything.


There still is something to be gained from "playing" a visual novel yourself. I'd compare it to reading a book vs listening to an audiobook. There's just something qualitatively different about it; being able to read at your own pace, re-read parts if desired, etc.

And it might sound kind of stupid if you've never really gotten into one before, but even something as simple as hitting the enter key yourself can add something if, say, you're hesitant to do so because you suspect bad things are to follow.