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PC already cheaper than next-gen console, just for hardware

#81DarkZV2Beta(Topic Creator)Posted 11/3/2013 3:18:19 PM
Rigby_Raccoon posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
This build is made for comparison against the PS4 and other next gen consoles


Consoles don't use single channel RAM, they have 8core processors, they don't use Linux, and they have a stronger GPU.

So, like I said, fail.

Besides, it would make more sense to see how good of a build you can get out of the same price point, not posting some s***ty half-assed build that you think is kinda similar that's actually inferior to something that costs $20 more..

You made an awful build that doesn't compare technically to the PS3 in terms of OS, CPU, GPU, or RAM, and it isn't even the best build for the money! What a goddam pointless topic this was then.

And look, it just turned into 'dur my toys are shinier than your toys!' crap that any topic that mentions both a computer and a console always turns into.


Consoles don't have dedicated video memory, lock cores for OS and DRM functions, don't use Windows, and actually, universally, have a weaker GPU in every spec.
Also, consoles can and have used linux in the past.

You really aught to do your research before running your mouth. You look like a bitter console fanbrat.
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#82Rigby_RaccoonPosted 11/3/2013 3:27:43 PM
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Consoles don't have dedicated video memory, lock cores for OS and DRM functions, don't use Windows, and actually, universally, have a weaker GPU in every spec.


1. I never said they use Windows -_- put more words in my mouth you desperate neckbeard, go ahead, do it.
2. Whether they lock or not has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
3. If the GPU is weaker, then how exactly is your build a good comparison? lmao
4. You still have completely dissimilar CPU and RAM.

Also, consoles can and have used linux in the past.


PS3 did and they blocked that due to the fact you could exploit it and steal content. Wow nice!

You look like a bitter console fanbrat.


I'm critiquing your PC build, saying you suck at coming up with one that's either quality or makes any sense, so that means I'm a console fanboy? That makes no f***ing sense at all.

I haven't owned a new console since the PS1, but clearly, anyone who thinks your build sucks, makes no sense whatsoever, and isn't equivalent to a console, is OBVIOUSLY a console 'fanbrat.'

Stop being such an insecure infant.
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#83DarkZV2Beta(Topic Creator)Posted 11/3/2013 3:50:24 PM(edited)
Rigby_Raccoon posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Consoles don't have dedicated video memory, lock cores for OS and DRM functions, don't use Windows, and actually, universally, have a weaker GPU in every spec.


1. I never said they use Windows -_- put more words in my mouth you desperate neckbeard, go ahead, do it.
2. Whether they lock or not has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
3. If the GPU is weaker, then how exactly is your build a good comparison? lmao
4. You still have completely dissimilar CPU and RAM.

Also, consoles can and have used linux in the past.


PS3 did and they blocked that due to the fact you could exploit it and steal content. Wow nice!

You look like a bitter console fanbrat.


I'm critiquing your PC build, saying you suck at coming up with one that's either quality or makes any sense, so that means I'm a console fanboy? That makes no f***ing sense at all.

I haven't owned a new console since the PS1, but clearly, anyone who thinks your build sucks, makes no sense whatsoever, and isn't equivalent to a console, is OBVIOUSLY a console 'fanbrat.'

Stop being such an insecure infant.


I didn't say you said they used windows.
put more words in my mouth you desperate neckbeard, go ahead, do it.

Of course it does. Games don't have access to those cores.
The GPU in this build is faster. Can you not read?
The CPU is a much faster desktop part. More than twice as fast in every respect. The RAM is effectively better as well, with dedicated video memory and more memory available to games.(actually, 6+2 is closer to next gen consoles.)

GBA runs linux.

No you aren't. You're whining that my superior-to-ps4 build is somehow magically inferior in spite of being better in every spec, and then getting your panties in a knot over it. Just calling it how it is, kiddo.
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#84EpicKingdom_Posted 11/3/2013 3:49:05 PM
I lol'd.
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#85godplaysSNESPosted 11/3/2013 3:58:32 PM
DarkZV2Beta posted...
godplaysSNES posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Senkoy posted...
Terrible build, no one's gaming on Linux. And that card is slightly less good than the one on the PS4. They're about the same, but with optimization the PS4 would destroy that build. PC is better, but let's not exaggerate. That build is garbage compared to a PS4.


"console optimization" doesn't affect GPU comparisons, as we've clearly seen over the last generation, and the CPU used in this build is already vastly superior to what the PS4 uses. Also, that GPU is actually better than what's in PS4. It has slightly less tflops at stock, but this factory OC already has the same Tflop performance, and better performance in every other regard, without any further OC.
In fact, PS4 is garbage compared to that build.


Console GPUs have the advantage of having all features exposed though.

It's easy to forget that DX11 is four years old by now, and almost no one is using OpenGL with extensions to use more of the hardware. We've gotten some refinements with minor revisions, but we're still for the most part stuck with features that's been available since Evergreen/Fermi


But we have nvapi and Mantle for that now.
It's not practical for small budget studios without sponsorship, but then, neither is learning the ins and outs of a game console.


It remains to be seen how much Mantle does though, and more importantly, how many studios will support it.

Most studios today license their engine. As long as UE4, CE3 or whatever else engine is used, supports Mantle and are low level on the consoles, all should be fine.
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#86AgdistisPosted 11/3/2013 4:02:44 PM
AsucaHayashi posted...
i'm sorry, are we doing this console fanboy thing where you can count several consoles against only one platform that is the amiga?


No, i'm doing that common sense thing where I take an exact quote from an internet user and provide reasons as to why the quoted statement might be flawed.

You said "oh please. Amiga completely dominated the nes/snes/genesis in quality and variety" so those are the 3 systems I cited. You're the one who counted several consoles against the Amiga; a decision i'm guessing you regret.

amiga was a home computer system and computers are part of personal computer gaming. therefore if you actually look at the list you have genre defining games like monkey island, civilization, ultima, doom, syndicate, populous, dune etc. etc.


More multiplats and ports, and i'm pretty sure most/all of these are better on PC DOS. Some of those weren't even so much genre defining as they were popular; Dune in particular didn't have much overall impact unless you're talking about Dune II and even then that's predated by Herzog Zwei.

irrelevant to the point i was making.


You didn't have a point. You posted a list of popular games that were on every system under the sun at the time and pointed out that one of them got some forgotten remake. It had nothing to do with the Amiga and didn't support your claim that the Amiga's library "dominated" 3 whole console libraries.
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#87DarkZV2Beta(Topic Creator)Posted 11/3/2013 4:10:27 PM
godplaysSNES posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
godplaysSNES posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Senkoy posted...
Terrible build, no one's gaming on Linux. And that card is slightly less good than the one on the PS4. They're about the same, but with optimization the PS4 would destroy that build. PC is better, but let's not exaggerate. That build is garbage compared to a PS4.


"console optimization" doesn't affect GPU comparisons, as we've clearly seen over the last generation, and the CPU used in this build is already vastly superior to what the PS4 uses. Also, that GPU is actually better than what's in PS4. It has slightly less tflops at stock, but this factory OC already has the same Tflop performance, and better performance in every other regard, without any further OC.
In fact, PS4 is garbage compared to that build.


Console GPUs have the advantage of having all features exposed though.

It's easy to forget that DX11 is four years old by now, and almost no one is using OpenGL with extensions to use more of the hardware. We've gotten some refinements with minor revisions, but we're still for the most part stuck with features that's been available since Evergreen/Fermi


But we have nvapi and Mantle for that now.
It's not practical for small budget studios without sponsorship, but then, neither is learning the ins and outs of a game console.


It remains to be seen how much Mantle does though, and more importantly, how many studios will support it.

Most studios today license their engine. As long as UE4, CE3 or whatever else engine is used, supports Mantle and are low level on the consoles, all should be fine.


I don't think the industry will be sustainable any other way. If a company doesn't have the money to invest in something like Mantle and nvapi, they aren't likely to have the money to develop their own competitive engine and put out a competitively modern game at the same time.
Though, there's also the flipside of it; with Mantle claiming such high draw calls in comparison to PC standard APIs, if nVidia updates their software suite to achieve similar performance numbers in that respect, we could see a reversal, where even old Phenom II quads and overclocked Core 2 Quads outpace PS4 and Xbone.
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#88AsucaHayashiPosted 11/3/2013 5:30:44 PM(edited)
You said "oh please. Amiga completely dominated the nes/snes/genesis in quality and variety" so those are the 3 systems I cited. You're the one who counted several consoles against the Amiga; a decision i'm guessing you regret.

i don't regret anything since there was no flaw.

you were the one who mentioned a bunch of the amiga games as being multiplatform and as such i mentioned that PCs of their time and amiga were interchangeable as computer platforms which doesn't detract in any way whatsoever that the games library in its entirety on amiga > nes/snes/megadrive.

my entire first post was a response to somebody who thought that classic computer games in general were trash compared to console games and i just mentioned amiga since that was the most popular for its time compared to other computers like mac or apple ii etc. and unless something like the majority of amiga games had actual console ports of equal quality, my argument still stands.

to cite my own quote it says "quality and variety"... not "quality, variety and amiga-exclusivity".
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#89Rigby_RaccoonPosted 11/3/2013 5:47:15 PM
DarkZV2Beta posted...

Of course it does. Games don't have access to those cores.
The GPU in this build is faster. Can you not read?
The CPU is a much faster desktop part. More than twice as fast in every respect. The RAM is effectively better as well, with dedicated video memory and more memory available to games.(actually, 6+2 is closer to next gen consoles.)

GBA runs linux.

No you aren't. You're whining that my superior-to-ps4 build is somehow magically inferior in spite of being better in every spec, and then getting your panties in a knot over it. Just calling it how it is, kiddo.


1. You can't properly format a post to save your life -_- I don't understand what half of your post is even saying because you screwed it up so bad. Really goes to show the intelligence level of the person I'm talking to.

2. You don't have better RAM just because you have the same amount, you have single channel GDDR3 RAM. That's inferior to dual channel GDDR5, even if 3GB is reserved for OS and 8 for gaming. Do you even know the difference between single and dual channel ram?

3. GBA isn't a console. Even if it was, I can't find anything to confirm that it has Linux, just something that about you can install Linux to a cartridge, as in an archaic form of Linux that's completely useless. But hey, I'm not surprised your mind equates 'Linux properly running on a gaming console' to 'you can get a s***ty, broken version of Linux to kinda work on a GBA with a special cartridge you have to make yourself.'

4. Dual channel and twice the HDD capacity isn't 'magically inferior.' They're objectively advantageous.

You've also got a really elementary understanding of how cores work in a CPU. Eight cores at the speed of the PS3 isn't functionally comparable to a six core processor like you have. 'Durrr it's 6+2 so it's close!' That's not how it works -_- at all.

And you say 'omg so what if the RAM and HDD aren't as good as they can be? it's equivalent to PS4!!!' then say 'so what if the CPU isn't equivalent? it's better!!!' you can't have it both ways with both of these without having a stupidly awkward f***ed up build. it's the kind of build someone who has never built a computer would put together. single channel ram? really? is it 2008 in here?
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#90MangorushXIIIPosted 11/3/2013 7:15:06 PM
Rigby_Raccoon posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...

Of course it does. Games don't have access to those cores.
The GPU in this build is faster. Can you not read?
The CPU is a much faster desktop part. More than twice as fast in every respect. The RAM is effectively better as well, with dedicated video memory and more memory available to games.(actually, 6+2 is closer to next gen consoles.)

GBA runs linux.

No you aren't. You're whining that my superior-to-ps4 build is somehow magically inferior in spite of being better in every spec, and then getting your panties in a knot over it. Just calling it how it is, kiddo.


1. You can't properly format a post to save your life -_- I don't understand what half of your post is even saying because you screwed it up so bad. Really goes to show the intelligence level of the person I'm talking to.

2. You don't have better RAM just because you have the same amount, you have single channel GDDR3 RAM. That's inferior to dual channel GDDR5, even if 3GB is reserved for OS and 8 for gaming. Do you even know the difference between single and dual channel ram?

3. GBA isn't a console. Even if it was, I can't find anything to confirm that it has Linux, just something that about you can install Linux to a cartridge, as in an archaic form of Linux that's completely useless. But hey, I'm not surprised your mind equates 'Linux properly running on a gaming console' to 'you can get a s***ty, broken version of Linux to kinda work on a GBA with a special cartridge you have to make yourself.'

4. Dual channel and twice the HDD capacity isn't 'magically inferior.' They're objectively advantageous.

You've also got a really elementary understanding of how cores work in a CPU. Eight cores at the speed of the PS3 isn't functionally comparable to a six core processor like you have. 'Durrr it's 6+2 so it's close!' That's not how it works -_- at all.

And you say 'omg so what if the RAM and HDD aren't as good as they can be? it's equivalent to PS4!!!' then say 'so what if the CPU isn't equivalent? it's better!!!' you can't have it both ways with both of these without having a stupidly awkward f***ed up build. it's the kind of build someone who has never built a computer would put together. single channel ram? really? is it 2008 in here?


That was beautiful, darkzbetty just got ultimately destroyed with that post, I bet now he will hide or pretend he didn't see this post and hoping everyone will forget about it to save his embarrassment. Nicely done, Rigby.