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Seems awfully quiet now that 780Ti is making the rounds...

#61SmoboHashPosted 11/8/2013 9:36:42 AM
780 ti is a good card, but it's not new. It's essentially a "higher power, higher speed" version of the titan being released for less money. It's Nvidia trying to hold the performance crown by targeting a market that hardly exists ($700+). The reason the 290X excited people is that it brought this landslide of high-end prices, and once there are widely available custom coolers, they're going to be great cards to own.

There is no excuse for releasing such a terrible cooler on their flagship cards, but it's not like reference coolers are being given to consumers and custom cards are being given to reviewers. That would be scummy as hell, this is just lazy.
#62DarkZV2Beta(Topic Creator)Posted 11/8/2013 9:55:01 AM(edited)
Snuckie7 posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Snuckie7 posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Don't need to know the exact architecture to learn from something.
Also, they pretty much straight cloned Boost 2.0. It's common sense progression, sure, but their solution is pretty much exactly the same.

Doesn't change the fact that GCN and Kepler are completely different architectures. I guess that AMD learned moar coars = moar performance?

Boost 2.0 is not something inherent to, or exclusive to GK110. It's a piece of software that likely both AMD and Nvidia have been developing for some time.


They learned that they needed a higher end part to compete in that part of the market when nVidia released 780.

Completely besides the point. We were talking about AMD "learning" from GK110 architecture. What, did AMD think that Nvidia would never release something more powerful than GK104? What a revelation they must have had when GK110 released!


They learned that GK110 could be pushed into the consumer market, and just how far ahead of the top end gaming cards it was.
There's something to be learned from everything. Chill out.

For rear exhaust, I don't care in a well vented case provided the card stays cool(under 70c) and doesn't significantly impact cooling performance of other components. 460 hawk was great in that rosewill case I had that was basically a bunch of holes with some frame around it and some fan slots. Soon as I got a "quiet" case, though, the card couldn't stay cool, and neither could anything else in the case with it running. Got a 660 reference cooler now and everything is fine.
It's really too bad non reference cards almost always push air back into the case.

Also, wow, this topic sure heated up.
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Even people have toenails. Of course PCs have toenails. -claytonbuckley
#63KamenRiderBladePosted 11/8/2013 10:31:10 AM
Shebeskii posted...
KamenRiderBlade posted...
TimePharaoh posted...
KamenRiderBlade posted...
There are very few people with such large amounts of cash to spend on gaming hardware.

I myself skip many generations before building a new PC.


Don't lump the rest of us in with you, peasant.


So you're one person who likes to spend that kind of money on GPU's for the sake of it. Good for you.

That doesn't make you the majority of customers out there.

I could buy the GTX 780 Ti at any moment, would I do it? Hell no, it's a inefficient use of money.

What's up with that attitude?

All because I state a obvious fact that has long since been proven, you have to come out with a condescending rebuttal?

You wonder why people dislike PC Gamers with that kind "PC Master Race" BS who takes it so seriously, it's crappy condescending attitudes and rebuttals that get people to not want to enter PC gaming.

Your "peasant" remark is what is hurting the PC gaming community from growing new fans and getting other people into PC gaming.


Stop forcing other people to adhere to your purchasing values.

The 290 series without aftermarket cooling is a flop. It's an unfinished product and not worth the praises. Tom's Hardware, regretfully, are completely correct. It's not a product that guarantees consistency. If you have a lower (but still above OEM rebuilt) airflow case this cooler is going to bite you in the ass. The fact that its marketed at its top performance rating instead of what is guaranteed is bull****.

AMD have a history of this sort of thing. They denied the frame pacing issues at first and they're now denying significant variance in their top product. Time will tell, but right now the 290 and 290x are lemons.

THAT is why Nvidia charges what they charge, because some of us see what is plain as day.]

Aftermarket coolers will fix everything, but that doesn't change the fact that AMD put out this product in confidence.

Remember Fermi? Remember all the hate the 480 got?

The 480 was the same price. I think even cheaper, and the top card. The card even had superior stock cooling, and yet it was slammed.

AMD are held to a different standard than Nvidia. Even AMD fans don't hold AMD to the standards they hold Nvidia.


Stop putting words in my mouth. I never told anybody how they should spend their money.

I'm stating an obvious truth that is backed by industry facts and common sense.

The low end & middle end GPU is what makes the most profits for both AMD / Nvidia.

The top end GPU's, no matter if it's AMD / Nvidia, accounts for a small % of their revenue

Most people don't spend that much money on GPU's and don't find it worth while.

Does that mean YOU should spend on what I say. Heck no. Everybody will spend their own money on GPU. I'm just stating an obvious fact of the industry. That's it. Now let's move on.



The R9 290 series is a good card, the default cooler = CRAP.

Everybody who is in the know, will buy a 3rd party board with a custom cooler built on.

People are going to see the Perf / Value ratio for the R9 290, and it will sell very well.



http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/11/01/amd_radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_video_card_review/10

AMD may not have recognized the frame pacing issue right away, but they eventually caught on and more or less fixed it.


Nvidia charges whatever they can get away with, AMD does the same bloody thing, doesn't mean it's good for us consumers.
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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
#64KamenRiderBladePosted 11/8/2013 10:36:40 AM
Shebeskii posted...

Aftermarket coolers will fix everything, but that doesn't change the fact that AMD put out this product in confidence.

Remember Fermi? Remember all the hate the 480 got?

The 480 was the same price. I think even cheaper, and the top card. The card even had superior stock cooling, and yet it was slammed.

AMD are held to a different standard than Nvidia. Even AMD fans don't hold AMD to the standards they hold Nvidia.


Most companies that put out hot GPU's / CPU's design their product for it.

Nvidia / AMD / Intel have all done this in the past, it's still a valid product and will work fine. Even for long term use.

The 480 may have ran hot, but it still sold well enough.

People will always slam ANY hot GPU / CPU, they want a cooler product, if for any reason, just to not have a space heater. Realistically, it allows more thermal head room for OCing.

Only fanboys will hold one company to a higher standard than the other.

Any rational person will evaluate all factors and pick a card based on what factors matter to THEM.
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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
#65Snuckie7Posted 11/8/2013 11:10:39 AM
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Snuckie7 posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Snuckie7 posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Don't need to know the exact architecture to learn from something.
Also, they pretty much straight cloned Boost 2.0. It's common sense progression, sure, but their solution is pretty much exactly the same.

Doesn't change the fact that GCN and Kepler are completely different architectures. I guess that AMD learned moar coars = moar performance?

Boost 2.0 is not something inherent to, or exclusive to GK110. It's a piece of software that likely both AMD and Nvidia have been developing for some time.


They learned that they needed a higher end part to compete in that part of the market when nVidia released 780.

Completely besides the point. We were talking about AMD "learning" from GK110 architecture. What, did AMD think that Nvidia would never release something more powerful than GK104? What a revelation they must have had when GK110 released!


They learned that GK110 could be pushed into the consumer market, and just how far ahead of the top end gaming cards it was.


So are you implying Hawaii was designed as a counter to GK110? So AMD researched, developed, and produced Hawaii in 8 months?

The truth is really, that AMD and Nvidia are always sitting on technology more powerful than anything on the market. The only thing GK110 influenced is AMD deciding that they needed to release a more powerful chip (that they were already sitting on). Saying that they "learned" from it when we were clearly talking about architecture is just an argument on semantics.
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Intel Core i7 3820 | EVGA X79 SLI K2 | MSI 7950 Twin Frozr III | Samsung / 840 120GB / 8GB RAM | 1TB WD Caviar Blue | Corsair / 550D / H70 | Silencer MKIII 600W
#66DarkZV2Beta(Topic Creator)Posted 11/8/2013 12:48:58 PM
Snuckie7 posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Snuckie7 posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Snuckie7 posted...
Doesn't change the fact that GCN and Kepler are completely different architectures. I guess that AMD learned moar coars = moar performance?

Boost 2.0 is not something inherent to, or exclusive to GK110. It's a piece of software that likely both AMD and Nvidia have been developing for some time.


They learned that they needed a higher end part to compete in that part of the market when nVidia released 780.

Completely besides the point. We were talking about AMD "learning" from GK110 architecture. What, did AMD think that Nvidia would never release something more powerful than GK104? What a revelation they must have had when GK110 released!


They learned that GK110 could be pushed into the consumer market, and just how far ahead of the top end gaming cards it was.


So are you implying Hawaii was designed as a counter to GK110? So AMD researched, developed, and produced Hawaii in 8 months?

The truth is really, that AMD and Nvidia are always sitting on technology more powerful than anything on the market. The only thing GK110 influenced is AMD deciding that they needed to release a more powerful chip (that they were already sitting on). Saying that they "learned" from it when we were clearly talking about architecture is just an argument on semantics.


No, I'm saying GK110's release into the market influenced r290x's final specifications.
And, seriously? You think they were just sitting on 290x while the 780 dominated the $600 market?
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Even people have toenails. Of course PCs have toenails. -claytonbuckley
#67r0ge00Posted 11/8/2013 1:17:17 PM
DarkZV2Beta posted...
No, I'm saying GK110's release into the market influenced r290x's final specifications.
And, seriously? You think they were just sitting on 290x while the 780 dominated the $600 market?


Yah, why not? They're not pressured by any means. They have other revenue streams that aren't flagship GPUs. Nvidia has....Tegra (lol).
#68Snuckie7Posted 11/8/2013 1:19:08 PM
Do I think that Hawaii was already designed when the GTX 780 launched? Sure.

I'm glad we can agree that AMD didn't "learn" (read: copy) from Nvidia's GK110 architecture.
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Intel Core i7 3820 | EVGA X79 SLI K2 | MSI 7950 Twin Frozr III | Samsung / 840 120GB / 8GB RAM | 1TB WD Caviar Blue | Corsair / 550D / H70 | Silencer MKIII 600W
#69KidInTheHallPosted 11/8/2013 1:23:50 PM
daemon_dan posted...
KamenRiderBlade posted...
TimePharaoh posted...
KamenRiderBlade posted...
There are very few people with such large amounts of cash to spend on gaming hardware.

I myself skip many generations before building a new PC.


Don't lump the rest of us in with you, peasant.


So you're one person who likes to spend that kind of money on GPU's for the sake of it. Good for you.

That doesn't make you the majority of customers out there.

I could buy the GTX 780 Ti at any moment, would I do it? Hell no, it's a inefficient use of money.

What's up with that attitude?

All because I state a obvious fact that has long since been proven, you have to come out with a condescending rebuttal?

You wonder why people dislike PC Gamers with that kind "PC Master Race" BS who takes it so seriously, it's crappy condescending attitudes and rebuttals that get people to not want to enter PC gaming.

Your "peasant" remark is what is hurting the PC gaming community from growing new fans and getting other people into PC gaming.


we should be friends


You're a terrible friend.
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i5-3570k | ASRock Z77 Extreme6 | EVGA 560Ti 448 Classified x2 SLI | 16GB G.Skill Ares | Corsair 600T White | 212 EVO | HX750
#70ThescyyPosted 11/8/2013 3:14:34 PM
Snuckie7 posted...
Killur XFalcon posted...
Well, it's actually about 20-30% faster depending on overclocks, and considering I can pay the difference between those cards in less than 2 hours of work, yes it's worth the price hike.

High end products are not meant to be a value proposition. They are toys for those with higher disposable income. No need to bring childish terms like "lol peasant" into this conversation because I don't believe in crap like that, but you need to understand the mindset of enthusiasts. They don't look at price/performance. They want the best, regardless of cost.

Imagine how foolish it would sound going on a Ferrari forum and telling everyone they wasted their money because a Honda Civic gets much better mileage, and gets you from point A to point B just fine.


The gap between the 780Ti and the 780 will only decrease with overclocking taken into account. Same power delivery, same TDP, so the 780 will be able to hit higher frequencies.

The only person in this entire topic to say "lol peasant" is you, in fact.

High end products and good value are not mutually exclusive. The fact that you think they are is the reason why Nvidia can get away with selling $1k GPUs.


The 780ti actually has a beefed up power delivery system. It's why titan blocks won't fit it. It also appears they have allowed for higher voltage on the stock bios as I've seen afterburner screenshots with +73mv as opposed to the lower number which I can't remember on the 780/titan.
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i7 3930k @ 4.5Ghz | H220 | asrock x79 extreme 9 | 16GB 1600mhz ram | SLI GTX 780 | Samsung 830 256GB SSD | 8TB HDDs | EVGA Supernova 1300 G2 | Fractal design R4