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Dark Souls

#51a_Wizards_BakerPosted 11/29/2013 9:57:03 AM
Tyranius2 posted...
yars posted...
also lol @ the people who say dark souls isn't hard.


If you're new to games or bad player, then yes, it is hard.


I agree, it isn't that hard, but i think it boils down to understanding the combat. It's difficult the first time you play it up until the Gargoyles. After that it's just a matter of learning the new enemy types / moves.

Once you can parry / riposte and back-stab with efficiency, the difficulty becomes trivial.
#52The cranky hermitPosted 11/29/2013 11:03:33 AM
KCGemini posted...
AlleRacing posted...
I have no idea how anyone can call Dark Souls comparable in difficulty to Ninja Gaiden. Or how anyone can define it as not an RPG.

Yea, my level 1 character can equip anything and is as tough as my level 120 PVP character. /sarcasm

When I finished Devil May Cry, Dante was significantly more powerful, tougher, and wielded stronger weapons than he did at the beginning. Same with Ninja Gaiden Black, God of War, Banjo-Kazooie, Mega Man X, and even Double Dragon on the NES. But that doesn't make any of those games RPGs either.

I also don't think anyone said it was comparable in difficulty to Ninja Gaiden.
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#53AlleRacingPosted 11/29/2013 4:17:28 PM
a_Wizards_Baker posted...
I agree, it isn't that hard, but i think it boils down to understanding the combat. It's difficult the first time you play it up until the Gargoyles. After that it's just a matter of learning the new enemy types / moves.

Once you can parry / riposte and back-stab with efficiency, the difficulty becomes trivial.


I never even really bothered to get good at parrying, I only tried a couple times on a few Balder Knights and a few Black Knights, and I didn't even bother backstabbing anything except for the Infested Barbarians in Blight Town. My basic strategy for almost everything, most bosses included, was to two-hand my weapon and swing away. Sounds stupid, but it ended up being very effective. Things would usually stagger before they managed to get a hit on me (even Titanite demons sometimes), and even if they did, I could poise tank almost anything, even one of Artorias' flipping attacks. There were very few situations where it didn't work. I'm on NG+ and using almost the same strategy to about the same effect.

The cranky hermit posted...
When I finished Devil May Cry, Dante was significantly more powerful, tougher, and wielded stronger weapons than he did at the beginning. Same with Ninja Gaiden Black, God of War, Banjo-Kazooie, Mega Man X, and even Double Dragon on the NES. But that doesn't make any of those games RPGs either.

I also don't think anyone said it was comparable in difficulty to Ninja Gaiden.


Do you create your character in any of those games? Do you have to carefully select your skill points at level up for specific builds? Certain weapons? Certain spells? Those games may have character progression via RPG elements, but none has character creation. That's a fairly important distinction.

Also:

vecryn posted...
I would say it's on par with Ninja Gaiden for the challenge

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#54The cranky hermitPosted 11/29/2013 4:29:34 PM
Do you create your character in any of those games? Do you have to carefully select your skill points at level up for specific builds? Certain weapons? Certain spells? Those games may have character progression via RPG elements, but none has character creation. That's a fairly important distinction.

True, it is an important distinction, and I would have a hard time calling any game an RPG if it didn't have character creation, but I don't see it as enough - I have already explained my criteria for RPG that it fails. It's a better point than "Dark Souls has leveling" anyway.

I would say it's on par with Ninja Gaiden for the challenge

Gotcha.
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#55yarsPosted 11/30/2013 9:14:29 AM
a_Wizards_Baker posted...
Tyranius2 posted...
yars posted...
also lol @ the people who say dark souls isn't hard.


If you're new to games or bad player, then yes, it is hard.


I agree, it isn't that hard, but i think it boils down to understanding the combat. It's difficult the first time you play it up until the Gargoyles. After that it's just a matter of learning the new enemy types / moves.

Once you can parry / riposte and back-stab with efficiency, the difficulty becomes trivial.


that you figured it out and managed to get through it doesn't mean it's "not hard". dark souls is a more difficult game than 99% of games made today. that makes it hard.
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#56AlleRacingPosted 11/30/2013 9:25:23 AM
I'm not convinced you've played 99% of the games made today. Hard/very hard in a lot of FPS games is significantly more challenging than Dark Souls. Getting 2-shot by hitscan weapons with is more daunting than being 3+ hit by enemies with very telegraphed attacks. Most bosses won't even 1-hit you with 10 vitality until much later in the game.
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#57TomNook20Posted 11/30/2013 12:47:48 PM
The cranky hermit posted...

No, he's right. You clearly haven't played RPGs. It's also apparent you think Zelda is an RPG, which would further show you haven't played RPGs.

Baldur's Gate is an RPG. There is not a single core mechanic that Baldur's Gate and Dark Souls have in common - only peripheral mechanics such as leveling and equipping which honestly can be found in nearly every action game these days.

And Zelda isn't a horrible analog to Dark Souls, but the focus is pretty different. Zelda's focus is on exploration and puzzle solving, while Dark Souls is more about fighting and not being killed by devious traps.


LMFAO.
You apprently can't even read. Please show me where I said zelda was an rpg. Go on, show me a quote. I'm waiting. You're a complete joke of a poster.

As I said, if dark souls isn't an rpg, then the genre doesn't exist. Go troll somewhere else.
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#58Majoras_pantsPosted 11/30/2013 1:01:11 PM
Role Playing isn't a mechanic. It's a style of game. Role playing simply means the game gives you freedoms in creating your character and deciding what his role will be in the game's world. Leveling is a mechanic that lends itself well to the genre because it gives you control over how your character develops. That doesn't make leveling an RPG mechanic, it's just a mechanic that is well suited to RPGs.

The problem with RPGs as a genre is that it's not applied the same way other genres are. Other genres are labeled as such because of mechanics, while RPG is a concept. Almost like it's a subgenre to other genres.

For instance, Deus Ex is an RPG. It's also a shooter. While some games blend mechanics together and meld them into a cross game, RPGs don't need to. A game can be 100% pure RPG while still being a shooter, or a hack and slash action game, or anything as long as the concept of role playing is applied and focused on.

Dark Souls doesn't give you a ton of options in how you interact with the world, but you do get some. Your decisions effect how some characters react and how the world changes. Not as much as many other RPGs, but it's there. And you have full control over you your character develops and fights because you have a lot of options in character building and what types of equipment or magic you use to get through areas. It's definitely an RPG.

And the game really isn't very difficult, unless you don't figure out the basics. Take it slow and you wont have much trouble. It's not as difficult as a lot of strategy games or heavy twitch based games. But it's punishing enough to keep you constantly careful and on your toes. The difficulty isn't intense but it's really well balanced.
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#59ab2c4Posted 11/30/2013 1:07:36 PM
I would say it is a tactical action game with RPG elements. I have 220 hours into it on the ps3 and love it.
#60a_Wizards_BakerPosted 11/30/2013 1:26:03 PM
AlleRacing posted...

I never even really bothered to get good at parrying, I only tried a couple times on a few Balder Knights and a few Black Knights, and I didn't even bother backstabbing anything except for the Infested Barbarians in Blight Town. My basic strategy for almost everything, most bosses included, was to two-hand my weapon and swing away. Sounds stupid, but it ended up being very effective. Things would usually stagger before they managed to get a hit on me (even Titanite demons sometimes), and even if they did, I could poise tank almost anything, even one of Artorias' flipping attacks. There were very few situations where it didn't work. I'm on NG+ and using almost the same strategy to about the same effect.


This is certainly a way to do it! My friend did prt much the same thing -- zweihander + black knight armor and two-handed his way through the majority of the game. I guess I got more satisfaction using light armor and a quick blade (iaito, or something).

yars posted...
a_Wizards_Baker posted...
Tyranius2 posted...
yars posted...
also lol @ the people who say dark souls isn't hard.


If you're new to games or bad player, then yes, it is hard.


I agree, it isn't that hard, but i think it boils down to understanding the combat. It's difficult the first time you play it up until the Gargoyles. After that it's just a matter of learning the new enemy types / moves.

Once you can parry / riposte and back-stab with efficiency, the difficulty becomes trivial.


that you figured it out and managed to get through it doesn't mean it's "not hard". dark souls is a more difficult game than 99% of games made today. that makes it hard.


Uh, i don't know how to argue against that -- for me (and i would think most other players) once i got the hang of it, it wasn't hard any more. Was it challenging in spots? Of course (duke's archives was annoying). But i never got frustrated or felt it was so difficult i wouldn't be able to continue on.

Really, it just reminded me of games i played when i was a kid (battletoads, megaman, contra, ect). Once you know the level and the boss's moves you've pretty much got the game in the bag).