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Is there any chance for someone that didn't like Morrowind to like Skyrim?

#31CommonJoePosted 12/24/2013 9:17:44 AM
DiviDude posted...
Rahvinn posted...
Why do Morrowind fanboys have to be so insufferable?


They really are the worst, aren't they? I can't think of another game so flawed that nonetheless is so desperately defended.


Most of the time people are judging it for the wrong reasons. Such as criticizing the mechanics behind Morrowind's combat when in reality the real problem was that it was half-animated.

But of course, this doesn't stop people from just ignoring reason (because they don't want to like Morrowind) and just copping out with the "fanboy" argument.
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#32arleasPosted 12/24/2013 9:17:49 AM
From: old_school227 | #018
That's a weird statement considering that Skyrim is just a big game of follow the arrow and do what the game tells you to do.


Yes, there are quests and quest markers and stuff... what I meant is that there is no real compelling reason to do any of it. You can pretty early on ditch the main quest entirely and forget it exists and go around doing whatever you feel like.
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#33DiviDudePosted 12/24/2013 9:23:07 AM
CommonJoe posted...
Most of the time people are judging it for the wrong reasons.


Trying to explain away legit criticisms? That's exactly the sort of thing a fanboy would do :)


(BTW I'm just goofing off at this point, I've done the Morrowind criticism thread thing enough times already!)
#34PraetorXynPosted 12/24/2013 9:23:55 AM
DiviDude posted...
Rahvinn posted...
Why do Morrowind fanboys have to be so insufferable?


They really are the worst, aren't they? I can't think of another game so flawed that nonetheless is so desperately defended.


Skyrim.

I loved Morrowind but Gothic 2 + Night of the Raven is a much better RPG.
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#35CommonJoePosted 12/24/2013 9:28:43 AM
DiviDude posted...
CommonJoe posted...
Most of the time people are judging it for the wrong reasons.


Trying to explain away legit criticisms? That's exactly the sort of thing a fanboy would do :)


(BTW I'm just goofing off at this point, I've done the Morrowind criticism thread thing enough times already!)


The difference is that I"m giving you something legitimate to criticize. I'm not even remotely trying to say the game is perfect.
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Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2. Lets revitalize this game eh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FUge6ghaIo&hd=1
#36Aqua69696Posted 12/24/2013 9:47:09 AM
monkmith posted...
ShadowThaReaper posted...
Frustration at Morrowind's combat just means you have no imagination, and you should just stick to playing something with explosions.


why do people defend morrowind's combat system. it was BAD, no two ways about it. the dice roll system meant that most of the time you were hitting air early on, i vividly remember being beaten to death by one of the residents of Seyda Neen because i wanted his house and he didn't want to move. i had a sword and armor and he had fists...

yeah, changing it in oblivion made it feel easier, but thats because it wasn't as broken. just crank up the difficulty if it bothers you that much. but just because morrowind's combat sucked at the start doesn't mean you the game wasn't amazing, it just becomes a minor imperfection.


Skyrim: I just got out of being executed in this new country, now my next move is to slaughter countless bandits, often taking them out 3 VS 1. Holy **** a highwayman, I'll refuse his demands and slaughter him and all of his cronies.

Morrowind: I just got out of the census office in this new country. I'm gonna try and earn some gold by doing oddjobs. Holy **** a highwayman, this guy will murder me if I don't give him gold.

Morrowind combat was better in the RPG sense. It was stupid how you were death incarnate fresh off the boat in Skyrim. Also you know Morrowinds combat was just a rough representation, the technology to have the enemy dodge your attacks literally was just not there so you just had to assume that's what happened.

In essence Morrowinds combat and Skyrims, at least Duel Wield combat are the same. Mash the attack button.
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#37AlleRacingPosted 12/24/2013 10:24:20 AM
CommonJoe posted...
Most of the time people are judging it for the wrong reasons.


I'll say. Morrowind is my favourite game, and I'll bet I can come up with more and better criticisms of it than just about anyone who dislikes it. The problem is, most people's criticisms of the game stem from them sucking and/or their inability to read the manual.
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#38RahvinnPosted 12/24/2013 3:23:24 PM
ShadowThaReaper posted...
Rahvinn posted...
I love Morrowind, and in my opinion it's the best TES game, but the combat was completely rubbish. Oblivion, and to a lesser extent Skyrim, may have watered down the experience to a degree but their combat systems are a massive improvement.

Hardly a massive improvement when you're doing the exact same thing. Why are Skyrim and Oblivion fanboys so ignorant?

Combat sucks in all of them. Stop trying to hold up the newer games in the series just because you just started playing video gamed in 2007, and those are your first ones.

I.....what?

1) How am I a Skyrim/Oblivion fanboy when I have just stated that I prefer Morrowind?

2) There is an argument to be had that combat is one of the weak points of the series as a whole, but I have yet to read a convincing argument that Morrowind's interpretation is superior (or even equal to) to the games that followed it.

3) Here's a tip for you. Attempting to undermine an opposing view by making unfounded personal insults/claims about an opponents experience just makes you look like an idiot and actually weakens your own argument.

CommonJoe posted...
Claims a lack of objectivity, goes on to spout a completely subjective opinion.

I will admit that, technically, it is a subjective opinion to say that the combat in Skyrim/Oblivion is superior to the combat in Morrowind. However only so far as any opinion on any videogame is by it's very nature subjective. I cannot see how anyone could attempt an objective comparison of the two styles of combat and come to the conclusion that Morrowind's is more successful.

Purely anecdotally I don't know anyone in real life who thinks Morrowinds combat is better, and I have never read an article by a professional critic claiming as such either. I stand ready to be corrected on that second statement.

More to the point what I was trying to get at was that Morrowind fans, in my experience, tend (more so than Skyrim/Oblivion) to be the ones who staunchly defend 'their' game and refuse to admit that it has faults.

It is possible to prefer Morrowind to the later games whilst still admitting that it has many issues.
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#39CommonJoePosted 12/24/2013 8:20:49 PM
I never suggested Morrowind's combat was superior to anything. My personal opinion is that it is mostly adequate for its purpose and the type of game it was present in. No more, no less.

I just don't like when people criticize something for the wrong reasons, because it isn't fair to the thing itself.

And anyone who defends Morrowind and can't list its faults isn't worth listening to.

We all already know I think Morrowind's entire animation department was horrid, as was its character modelling.

I also believe that it could have done much better in regards to more grandiose quest lines beyond the Main Quest(s). Outside of the MQ's, most questlines deal with fairly mundane material for a fantasy setting.

It also was in desperate need of NPC enemies that weren't complete pushovers, but also weren't Demigods if you couldn't knock them over with a feather.

There was also a lot of wasted potential with its character development system (skills, attributes, etc) that could have made the game a lot more of a fun RPG.

And I could go on.
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Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2. Lets revitalize this game eh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FUge6ghaIo&hd=1
#40RahvinnPosted 12/25/2013 2:11:13 AM
CommonJoe posted...
I never suggested Morrowind's combat was superior to anything. My personal opinion is that it is mostly adequate for its purpose and the type of game it was present in. No more, no less.

I just don't like when people criticize something for the wrong reasons, because it isn't fair to the thing itself.

And anyone who defends Morrowind and can't list its faults isn't worth listening to.

We all already know I think Morrowind's entire animation department was horrid, as was its character modelling.

I also believe that it could have done much better in regards to more grandiose quest lines beyond the Main Quest(s). Outside of the MQ's, most questlines deal with fairly mundane material for a fantasy setting.

It also was in desperate need of NPC enemies that weren't complete pushovers, but also weren't Demigods if you couldn't knock them over with a feather.

There was also a lot of wasted potential with its character development system (skills, attributes, etc) that could have made the game a lot more of a fun RPG.

And I could go on.


Fair enough, and thank you for proving it is possible to be a reasonable Morrowind fan!
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'He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.'