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Will AMD ever get any FAIR competition?

#1Oh_Boy_Posted 12/26/2013 11:30:33 PM(edited)
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/173511-nvidias-gameworks-program-usurps-power-from-developers-end-users-and-amd

Now, we have a situation where AMD's performance cannot be optimized for these DX11 functions. Writing new libraries may be technically possible, just as it was technically possible for AMD to write its own compiler, but the costs are prohibitive. Again, AMD's performance is resting in the hands of a company other than AMD.

The reason this situation isn't as bad as Intel's compilers is because AMD hasn't paid Nvidia for the right to use GameWorks. Nevertheless, I believe it creates a similar impact. People look at DX11 or the poor performance of Crossfire in Arkham Origins, and they blame AMD's drivers without realizing that AMD *cannot* optimize the drivers for those functions without access to libraries and support from the developer.
#2thegreatsquarePosted 12/26/2013 11:39:46 PM
This is why AMD is promoting the Mantle API.


...and HSA.
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#3Bazooka_PenguinPosted 12/26/2013 11:39:48 PM
I don't like Nvidia's practices anymore than the next guy - as long the next guy isn't resident Nvidia fanboy Shebeskii - but it's Nvidia's library.

Sure, they could make it open source and selflessly benefit everyone, but they created the library and they help the developers implement it in games. In the end it exists to create an incentive for buying Nvidia cards. It IS fair. It's just a bit contemptible is all.
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#4saltedhamPosted 12/26/2013 11:46:24 PM
It's not personal, amd. It's strictly business.
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#5Flaktrooper123Posted 12/26/2013 11:53:32 PM
Maybe it is because they are not aiming high. At least those Hawaii GPU shows that they are starting to take things seriously.
#6DarkZV2BetaPosted 12/27/2013 12:11:41 AM(edited)
nVidia and AMD do this kind of **** all the time. Both of them "encourage" developers to make games that will run better on their hardware than the competition. nVidia's done it with tessellation, AMD's done it with supersampling, nVidia is going to do it with GameWorks, AMD will have Mantle.
In fact, AMD is doing this a lot worse, since Mantle won't work on nVidia cards at all.
Hell, AMD had early access to and influence over DirectX 10 thanks to their partnership with Microsoft at that time. I believe they also had a much heavier hand in DirectX 11 than nVidia did.
nVidia has actually been better supporting OpenGL, a much more fair standard for competition.

If anything, I'd actually say AMD has been the underhanded company that doesn't play fair. They're just much sneakier about it, putting on a front of being the underdog fighting for the people against big bad evil nVidia.
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#7ARMs7777Posted 12/27/2013 12:11:15 AM
How is amd doing it worst. Nvidia have the option to make mantle work with their stuff. GameWorks wont work on amd cards period and devs are refusing amd codes and fixes.
#8DarkZV2BetaPosted 12/27/2013 12:15:44 AM
ARMs7777 posted...
How is amd doing it worst. Nvidia have the option to make mantle work with their stuff. GameWorks wont work on amd cards period and devs are refusing amd codes and fixes.


Actually, it's the other way around. Mantle is a low-level API that only works on AMD-owned GCN architecture. nVidia can't use it without buying rights to make GCN cards, which would essentially mean nVidia would have to be a partner to AMD, paying to release slight variants on AMD's graphics architecture.
On the other hand, GameWorks doesn't prevent a game from working on AMD cards. It's just optimized for nVidia cards. It's no different from games having heavy tessellation, or using supersampling as the default in-game AA option.
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#9Bazooka_PenguinPosted 12/27/2013 12:30:18 AM
DarkZV2Beta posted...
ARMs7777 posted...
How is amd doing it worst. Nvidia have the option to make mantle work with their stuff. GameWorks wont work on amd cards period and devs are refusing amd codes and fixes.


Actually, it's the other way around. Mantle is a low-level API that only works on AMD-owned GCN architecture. nVidia can't use it without buying rights to make GCN cards, which would essentially mean nVidia would have to be a partner to AMD, paying to release slight variants on AMD's graphics architecture.
On the other hand, GameWorks doesn't prevent a game from working on AMD cards. It's just optimized for nVidia cards. It's no different from games having heavy tessellation, or using supersampling as the default in-game AA option.


http://www.dsogaming.com/news/amds-mantle-does-not-require-gpus-with-gcn-architecture/

During AMDís Developer Summit, Johan Andersson confirmed that Mantle is not tied to AMDís GCN architecture, meaning that there isnít such requirement.

And the slide says they want it hardware and software vendors so that it becomes an industry standard.

http://www.techspot.com/news/54134-amd-launches-mantle-api-to-optimize-pc-gpu-performance.html
We've been told at the GPU14 Tech Day event that the Mantle API is open, so theoretically Nvidia could purpose the technology in their GPUs.

The only reason the initial model is only GCN compatible is because AMD was the only hardware company that offered to work with DICE. Andersson mentioned this in one of the presentations IIRC.
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#10ATARIJAWAPosted 12/27/2013 2:20:39 AM
Mantle<GSYNC
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