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My Haswell chip is garbage

#31ThePCElitistPosted 12/29/2013 10:53:21 AM
EternalFlame66 posted...
SmoboHash posted...
EternalFlame66 posted...
Is haswell 3 times faster than phenom ii in sc2? that performance difference kinda suprised me and isn't reflected in other games.


Every Blizzard game I've looked at performance numbers for is extremely Intel-favored. No idea why, but it's certainly a thing.


Either they're optimized for Intel, or optimized for both.

With Blizzard's budget I'd think they have money to optimize for both though....

What are they doing though? They need to use a more efficient engine though.

Last I heard all their games only use 2 cores?


Really? I'm actually surprised by this. I thought they've updated all their games to support multiple cores.
#32EternalFlame66Posted 12/29/2013 10:58:28 AM
ThePCElitist posted...
EternalFlame66 posted...
SmoboHash posted...
EternalFlame66 posted...
Is haswell 3 times faster than phenom ii in sc2? that performance difference kinda suprised me and isn't reflected in other games.


Every Blizzard game I've looked at performance numbers for is extremely Intel-favored. No idea why, but it's certainly a thing.


Either they're optimized for Intel, or optimized for both.

With Blizzard's budget I'd think they have money to optimize for both though....

What are they doing though? They need to use a more efficient engine though.

Last I heard all their games only use 2 cores?


Really? I'm actually surprised by this. I thought they've updated all their games to support multiple cores.


Look at HotS benchmark linked earlier...

In single player with a phenom ii you can get like 10FPS at 720P lol. There's just no way it's using more than 2 cores to only get 10FPS.
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#33ShebeskiiPosted 12/29/2013 11:08:28 AM(edited)
ThePCElitist posted...
EternalFlame66 posted...
SmoboHash posted...
EternalFlame66 posted...
Is haswell 3 times faster than phenom ii in sc2? that performance difference kinda suprised me and isn't reflected in other games.


Every Blizzard game I've looked at performance numbers for is extremely Intel-favored. No idea why, but it's certainly a thing.


Either they're optimized for Intel, or optimized for both.

With Blizzard's budget I'd think they have money to optimize for both though....

What are they doing though? They need to use a more efficient engine though.

Last I heard all their games only use 2 cores?


Really? I'm actually surprised by this. I thought they've updated all their games to support multiple cores.


Stuff like SC2 is problematic, but something like Diablo has no excuse.

And yeah my 2500K at 4.5 probably performs similarly or possibly a touch better than those Haswells at stock. People were claiming SC2 ran fine on Phenom IIs, but they never really played the game seriously. You can really see the huge gains towards playability with a proper CPU for a worst case scenario.

Getting 10FPS is what Phenom IIs always got, people just ignore bad performance if they're content. Any serious SC2 player has always known AMD's Phenom II line has been just brutal for the game.

Most casual players didn't play more than the Campaign with a mouse or some custom games.

2v2, 3v3 and even 4v4 200/200 battles controlled reasonably? Not even in the question, but I've been in hundreds of them over the years, and a Phenom II just does not cut it. The release of SC2 back in 2010 marked the end of the usability of that line of processors for me, but again, not everyone has the same demands and uses.
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That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
#34blogorogaPosted 12/29/2013 12:51:31 PM
I had a Haswell chip just like yours, I could not get it past 4.2 stable until the voltage was past 1.3, I felt it was too high, I RMA'd it and got another one. Both were Malay chips, but this one runs 4.6 at 1.25 stable and 4.7 at 1.31 stable, I use a Seidon 120XL cooler and temps are around 76 load on p95. I'm happier with this new chip
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#35SuigintouEVPosted 12/29/2013 1:10:25 PM(edited)
In cpu intensive programs like dolphin, haswell has a notable clock for clock edge over ivy bridge and sandy bridge.

As for what i get, my 4570k is stable at 4.5ghz @ 1.215v +/- 0.01v (and a smidge more volts on AVX but then it can get over 80 degrees celcius).

To the OP: if you have a bad chip but want a few more hertz, haswells can benefit from dropping your uncore down as they have a lot of bandwidth even at lower frequencies. Stock is 3.8ghz and mine is at 4.2ghz but you might want to drop it down to 3.3ghz or so... It might not be a bottleneck at all and could get you up to 4.4-4.6 range.

but if you want to get really high overclocks you will probably want to find a better chip AND delid it.

either way though, a haswell at 4.2ghz can be comparable to other i5/i7 at ~4.5 to 5ghz
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#36PhilOnDezPosted 12/29/2013 1:21:24 PM
EternalFlame66 posted...
With Blizzard's budget I'd think they have money to optimize for both though....

Last I heard all their games only use 2 cores?


Actually, they'll run on however many threads are available, up to at least 8, maybe more. It's just that each thread does about half as much as the previous thread did meaning after 2 cores you're gaining almost nothing, the third does a quarter as much as the first, and the 4th does 1/8, 1/16, etc etc.

A quad core is obviously better than a dual core since the third thread is still a pretty nice chunk of computing but after that the gains are pretty insignificant since on the quad core the first 2 cores will be doing ~85% of the work and even on the 8 core it's still 80% or more.
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#37ShebeskiiPosted 12/29/2013 1:36:11 PM
PhilOnDez posted...
EternalFlame66 posted...
With Blizzard's budget I'd think they have money to optimize for both though....

Last I heard all their games only use 2 cores?


Actually, they'll run on however many threads are available, up to at least 8, maybe more. It's just that each thread does about half as much as the previous thread did meaning after 2 cores you're gaining almost nothing, the third does a quarter as much as the first, and the 4th does 1/8, 1/16, etc etc.

A quad core is obviously better than a dual core since the third thread is still a pretty nice chunk of computing but after that the gains are pretty insignificant since on the quad core the first 2 cores will be doing ~85% of the work and even on the 8 core it's still 80% or more.


It really does work something like this for Blizzard titles.
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That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
#38DeanWhipperPosted 12/29/2013 5:17:26 PM
Maybe I missed something, SC2 hideous performance on a Phenom II?

I have a Phenom II and I get fine performance, 60fps all the time.
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#39PhilOnDezPosted 12/29/2013 5:46:43 PM
DeanWhipper posted...
Maybe I missed something, SC2 hideous performance on a Phenom II?

I have a Phenom II and I get fine performance, 60fps all the time.


Yeah no. A 4960x OCd to 5 ghz would still get dips into the 40s if not 30s under max stress.
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#40Mogu_MoguPosted 12/29/2013 6:41:31 PM
yatesl posted...
4670k with a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO. I can only get it to 4.2GHz @ 1.24v (although trying for 1.235 now). Any lower voltage and it BSODs, and if I try 4.3GHz @ 1.25 it BSODs.

1.25v already gives me temps of ~83c on Prime95, so I don't really want to push it higher.

Anyway, make me feel worse by posting your 4.7GHz overclocks on stock coolers or something


4.2ghz is respectable for a Haswell. Doesn't mean it's garbage. lol
And yes, they do tend to get a bit hot. 83c is pushing it too far in my opinion. o_o

And last but not least, Haswells tend to run hot like that, I would never suggest trying to overclock past 4.0ghz on just a Hyper212. >_>

Many theories abound to this, some say it's because Intel swapped over from using a solder base to a thermal paste base plate in order to save on cost. Some people have tried taking it off and soldering it back on with varying degrees of success. Others say it's the smaller architecture that's just pumping too much heat into too small an area that isn't being removed efficiently enough with conventional means, and then compounded by the thermal paste medium, etc.
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