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Doom 4 now just called Doom, beta access included with Wolfenstein pre orders

#21JKatarnPosted 2/19/2014 11:17:08 AM(edited)
jake-sf posted...
Old games weren't "pre-order" incentives, they just happened to have demos of their games on it (especially old PC games), some of which tried to force you to watch preview videos as well and such.

There's just a huge difference between having stuff with the game and the whole "pre-order" debacle.


Pre-order/buying at retail are essentially the same concept, except when you pre-order, you're paying for the game prior to its release. My point stands. Demo/beta access, it makes no difference - both methods added an incentive for buying one game to access another.
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#22Moose_Of_WoePosted 2/19/2014 12:09:42 PM(edited)
jake-sf posted...
Then you should have played with fast monsters.


Oh I did, eventually. Brutal Doom has faster projectiles, too.

JKatarn posted...
Personally I'd rather fight fewer, more intelligent enemies than dozens of suicidal enemies that just charge right at you (not that Doom type games aren't a blast, but as you admit, the AI is pretty damn simple, that's part of the reason they could have so many enemies in Doom - and of course the fact that they were 2D sprites and not complex models didn't hurt). Of course if you want hordes of enemies there's always the Serious Sam series, though BFE seemed to cut down on the hordes significantly in the pursuit of better graphics (probably trying to appeal more to mainstream market).



Ye olde Doom A.I. was indeed god awful. Ultimately though no matter the game people will think of ways to exploit any AI. Sometimes it's more difficult because the devs allow the AI to blatantly cheat. Teleporting, clipping/climbing things that make no sense, spawning in cleared areas, to name a few. Naturally the method of cheating varies by the type of game.

My personal favorite AI cheats of late are the police in GTA5. No matter what car you drive the police will, out of nowhere, get a Superman burst of speed and slam in to you. This even includes if you're driving the fastest cars in the game fully modded out. However, you can exploit them simply by swerving back and forth and they won't do it.

The same thing applies when they pull sideways on a road to block you. They'll always try to pull forward/reverse so you hit them. The AI reacts instantly to which direction you turn to avoid them, so by wiggling the stick rapidly left to right you can keep them in place and pass them at the last second.

As far as graphics, sure those take up resources heavily compared to sprites. Still, I think devs could walk a fine line in balancing visuals vs enemy amount instead of going graphics graphics graphics.
#23JKatarnPosted 2/19/2014 12:13:45 PM
Moose_Of_Woe posted...
jake-sf posted...
Then you should have played with fast monsters.


Oh I did, eventually. Brutal Doom has faster projectiles, too.

JKatarn posted...
Personally I'd rather fight fewer, more intelligent enemies than dozens of suicidal enemies that just charge right at you (not that Doom type games aren't a blast, but as you admit, the AI is pretty damn simple, that's part of the reason they could have so many enemies in Doom - and of course the fact that they were 2D sprites and not complex models didn't hurt). Of course if you want hordes of enemies there's always the Serious Sam series, though BFE seemed to cut down on the hordes significantly in the pursuit of better graphics (probably trying to appeal more to mainstream market).



Ye olde Doom A.I. was indeed god awful. Ultimately though no matter the game people will think of ways to exploit any AI. Sometimes it's more difficult because the devs allow the AI to blatantly cheat. Teleporting, clipping/climbing things that make no sense, spawning in cleared areas, to name a few. Naturally the method of cheating varies by the type of game.

My personal favorite AI cheats of late are the police in GTA5. No matter what car you drive the police will, out of nowhere, get a Superman burst of speed and slam in to you. This even includes if you're driving the fastest cars in the game fully modded out. However, you can exploit them simply by swerving back and forth and they won't do it.

The same thing applies when they pull sideways on a road to block you. They'll always try to pull forward/reverse so you hit them. The AI reacts instantly to which direction you turn to avoid them, so by wiggling the stick rapidly left to right you can keep them in place and pass them at the last second.

As far as graphics, sure those take up resources heavily compared to sprites. Still, I think devs could walk a fine line in balancing visuals vs enemy amount instead of going graphics graphics graphics.


Except like it or not, graphics are what sell games/systems, they could dial back the model detail/ effects etc., and have larger swarms of enemies, but then you'd just have people opting to buy the 10,000 other FPS titles on the market with shinier graphics. Not that I agree with that, but that's the market.
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#24arleasPosted 2/19/2014 12:33:37 PM
From: ZeraphLordS | #005
demos are pre-order incentives now gross


They've been doing this to the console crowd for years now. I forget what game it was but because the only way to get the halo 3 demo was to buy a completely unrelated game, and of course they bought it JUST for the demo. Suckers...
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#25Moose_Of_WoePosted 2/19/2014 12:34:45 PM
JKatarn posted...
Except like it or not, graphics are what sell games/systems, they could dial back the model detail/ effects etc., and have larger swarms of enemies, but then you'd just have people opting to buy the 10,000 other FPS titles on the market with shinier graphics. Not that I agree with that, but that's the market.


I know. It sucks.
#26AceallwaysPosted 2/19/2014 12:44:04 PM
What is with the trend of dropping the number in a title?

Rambo
Doom
Tombraider
etc.
#27Orestes417Posted 2/19/2014 12:47:24 PM
Signifies a reboot rather than a continuation. New beginning.
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#28jake-sfPosted 2/19/2014 1:43:10 PM
JKatarn posted...


Except like it or not, graphics are what sell games/systems, they could dial back the model detail/ effects etc., and have larger swarms of enemies, but then you'd just have people opting to buy the 10,000 other FPS titles on the market with shinier graphics. Not that I agree with that, but that's the market.


I think Minecraft has straight up proven that this is a lie. If developers accepted that they were developing for a more niche audience and also accepted using smaller budgets and smaller returns, then they would find a lot of possibilities opened to them and potential for money.

But gaming has become more of a business and almost never an art. Making anything in "art" is a risk and nobody is willing to take risks anymore, and when they are, they throw millions at it thinking that solves the problems, and even most of those games are hardly successful.

Its a big, stupid lie they're living in.
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#29LOLIAmAnAltPosted 2/19/2014 2:00:16 PM
ZeraphLordS posted...
demos are pre-order incentives now gross


It's the main reason Zone of the Enders 1 sold so well...
Nothing new!
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#30LOLIAmAnAltPosted 2/19/2014 2:03:03 PM
But on another note, what's this new wolfenstein?
I am interested...
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