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Where does Dark Souls rank on the difficulty scale for you?

#71Saga3Posted 2/20/2014 7:13:54 PM
In terms of the last two generations: 10

Overall: 7
#72TimePharaohPosted 2/20/2014 7:59:26 PM
GBut
it's not because older gamers are superior gamers and newer gamers are babies who need handholding(some games do hand hold for sure but to say ALL or even most do is false).


False. Regardless of literally everything else you said, the majority of NES etc games didn't hold your hand. There wasn't an indepth cutscene explaining how to press each button. The game didn't stop as the camera panned and pointed you to the exact thing you had to do.

Have you seen the amount of people crying that DS doesn't tell you literally every single thing to do? If they didn't need handholding, how come almost every single game has handhold induced mechanics? Coincidence? Take games in the same serious, almost across the board the newest version is the most dumbed down mechanically and holds your hand the most. Why is this?

GBut
As for Dark Souls and Demon Souls, yes, the whole "teh hardezt gaem evar!!1!" thing is annoying, but so is the kneejerk negative reactions to the game as well. It is hard, at least harder than most games nowadays, as it takes the same path games like the original Castlevania and Megaman games took - forcing the player to stop and think out what they are doing rather than just bumrushing through the game blindly at top speed. Thats it, and thats all thats needed for a game to be considered difficult without being "cheap"


Grouping Demon's and Dark together is the mark of a casual, by the way, who can't tell the difference between good and bad mechanics (explains the rest of your post). What you described is Demon's Souls. Not Dark Souls. Most of the "hardness" of Dark Souls IS the result of "cheapness", not well designed "take your time".

For instance take a look at how the dragon bridge was done. In Demon's, if you were observant, you'd get it. In Dark Souls, unless you played Demon's or got lucky, you're dead. There's no indication. Look at how they did "boulder rolling down stairs to kill you" between the two, again Dark had no indication until it was too late. Dark Souls mechanics are built around "die first, now you get it" instead of quality design like Demon's Souls was.
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#73Knighted DragonPosted 2/20/2014 8:32:12 PM
From: JKatarn | #038
HaMMeRHeaD25 posted...
8/10

By today's standards it is difficult if you aren't reading wikis. It isn't too challenging or frustrating compared to many older titles, especially platformers.


I've played my share of old platform games, and IMO they have nothing on Dark Souls in the difficulty department.



Lol wut? Dark Souls is not even hard to play, it's all about knowing where enemies spawn, where items and bonfires are, what attacks enemies have etc. It's not very hard to just dodge around and kill enemies, and almost all of my deaths in Dark Souls have been to falling off cliffs because of the terrible camera, or to being killed by traps and such. Old platformers were hard as **** and made me want to rip my hair out as kid, and still do. Half an hour of Mario is enough to make me want to beat my head against a wall
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#74yarsPosted 2/20/2014 8:36:39 PM
xd. he literally thinks mario is harder than dark souls.
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#75DEADLY_HANGMANPosted 2/20/2014 8:43:35 PM
Everyone that says Dark Souls isn't hard hasn't yet had to deal with those GOD FORSAKEN ANOR LONDO ARCHERS.
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#76Bossdog421Posted 2/20/2014 9:49:02 PM
GeminiX7 posted...
ITT: We watch a bunch of people in thier 20s and early 30s talk about "kids these days" with a straight face.


Were games in the NES (and to a lesser extent SNES era) harder than most modern games? Yes. But it's not because older gamers are superior gamers and newer gamers are babies who need handholding(some games do hand hold for sure but to say ALL or even most do is false). Fact of the matter was that

1. Games weren't very long back then. The only way to pad the time was to increase the difficulty so you didn't blow through the entire library in a weekend. It's similar ro

2. The developers were much less experienced. Now, while some games(Castlevania, for example) were made purposefully hard and designed around methodical gaming(and tended to do so for reason #1) many if not most hard early games were that way for mechanical reasons rather than due to deliberate design choice. Be it rigid or floaty physics, buggy AI, etc, games were harder to control or get through in general. Nowadays games tend to be fine tuned to a rediculous degree, so you have more control over your characters and therefore the game plays without that "NES difficulty".

3. You were younger. Regardless of how awesome you think you were at gaming however old you were in the late 80s(or earlier) to the 90s, you aren't as good as you are now and many of the conventions of gaming that are common place didn't exist back then or were completely new to you. Of course MM3 was a hard game when you first played it. You were a child. Remembering how to tie your shoes was a challenge. Now you have 20+ years of gaming(and life experiences under your belt). If games with even comparable levels of challenge still caused you as much frustration as back then, I'd say you need to invest more on safety helmets than video games.

Now there are definitely games that have been made much easier over time(the Mario series comes to mind - hell, most things made by Nintendo post-N64) but on the whole it's less to do with how awesome and hardcore a gamer you are and more to do with games actually working the way the devs wanted them to.

As for Dark Souls and Demon Souls, yes, the whole "teh hardezt gaem evar!!1!" thing is annoying, but so is the kneejerk negative reactions to the game as well. It is hard, at least harder than most games nowadays, as it takes the same path games like the original Castlevania and Megaman games took - forcing the player to stop and think out what they are doing rather than just bumrushing through the game blindly at top speed. Thats it, and thats all thats needed for a game to be considered difficult without being "cheap" (again, most old era games). People who find the game difficult are justified in believing as much, and just because this new game is difficult doesn't mean us "old timers" need to be so damn insecure(yes, that is exactly how you sound).


Rather than turning this into a pissing contest to show how "laughably easy this game is for us true gamers", why not just enjoy it for what it is, a well-made throwback to (good) old school gaming.



BS.

Games were harder back then mostly because of the lack of available information. The internet spoils gamers, hell even the games spoil gamers. Lack of tech made the games harder as well, little to no saving options punished mistakes.

There were some long games back then too. You werent blowing through FF1 in a weekend like you can with any modern day shooter. There are tons of really short games now. It's actually surprising at how deep some games were back then. Maniac Manson has more ways to complete a game than pretty much anything made these days

lol at the younger thing too. Put Battletoads or Ghosts and Goblins in front of the "pro" darksouls youth of today and they are gonna get an eye opener.
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#77AlleRacingPosted 2/21/2014 6:05:11 AM
TimePharaoh posted...
For instance take a look at how the dragon bridge was done. In Demon's, if you were observant, you'd get it. In Dark Souls, unless you played Demon's or got lucky, you're dead. There's no indication. Look at how they did "boulder rolling down stairs to kill you" between the two, again Dark had no indication until it was too late. Dark Souls mechanics are built around "die first, now you get it" instead of quality design like Demon's Souls was.


This is just plain wrong. The Hellkite Wyvern shows up earlier in the area, clearly indicating that, yes, there is a rather large and dangerous looking dragon flying about here. If that wasn't enough, you can clearly see scorch marks and dead bodies on the bridge before you step out. It's a simple matter of observing your surroundings. Same with the boulders rolling down the stairs. In all instances (Undead Asylum, Undead Burg, Sen's Fortress), you can see the boulder before it will ever hit you. In the Asylum and Burg, it's a simple matter of looking toward the top of the stairs, and in Sen's Fortress, though you can't see up the stairs at first, a Man-Serpent tries to come up and promptly gets flattened by a boulder before you can even make it through the doorway to be in harm's way, and this is already well past the point where you should have figured out that this entire area is full of traps galore, every single one of them observable before you ever set them off, with the possible exception of the mimic (though there's probably tons of orange soapstone right in front of it anyway).

yars posted...
xd. he literally thinks mario is harder than dark souls.


I'd argue that most of the special stages on star road and a lot of the secret exits in Super Mario World are substantially harder than pretty much anything in Dark Souls.

DEADLY_HANGMAN posted...
Everyone that says Dark Souls isn't hard hasn't yet had to deal with those GOD FORSAKEN ANOR LONDO ARCHERS.


I actually consider that the hardest part, other than maybe Manus. Just when I think the one knight is about to draw is sword and I get ready to block, nope, another arrow and I'm off the ledge. Pretty easy recovery, but I usually die there once or twice each playthrough. Those dudes are bigger a******* than bonewheel skeletons.

Bossdog421 posted...
lol at the younger thing too. Put Battletoads or Ghosts and Goblins in front of the "pro" darksouls youth of today and they are gonna get an eye opener.


Damn right. Altered Beast on the Genesis was one that gave me a ridiculous time back then. If Dark Souls is an 8 on this board, Altered Beast would be a 20.
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#78yarsPosted 2/21/2014 7:02:35 AM
I'd argue that most of the special stages on star road and a lot of the secret exits in Super Mario World are substantially harder than pretty much anything in Dark Souls.


then you too would be wrong, and apparently terrible at platformers.
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#79AlleRacingPosted 2/21/2014 7:40:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSXSWqUirGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXSbUHDBGvA

Nah, I would make the argument that you're just really bad at Dark Souls. Manus is easier than either of those.
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#80yarsPosted 2/21/2014 7:43:48 AM
AlleRacing posted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSXSWqUirGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXSbUHDBGvA

Nah, I would make the argument that you're just really bad at Dark Souls. Manus is easier than either of those.


i don't know why you think those look difficult...
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