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Is there really nothing stopping people from pirating PC games?

#131The cranky hermitPosted 2/25/2014 9:25:39 PM
Developers love Steam and strive to get their games added and greenlit, the game market is thriving, and I don't believe Valve can just put any game on sale without the developer's consent, so your claim that Steam is bad for developers is BS.

You're forgetting that much of this reliance on Steam and Steam sales exists because they MUST. Any developer who isn't a giant like Activision or EA needs Steam, because everyone else uses Steam.

And we've been down this road before. Piracy is not theft, it's copyright infringement. Only copyright shills, trolls, and anti-piracy organizations use the term "theft" to describe copyright, because they want to dramatize and influence. You can argue a lot of things about copyright. You can say it's wrong ethically, morally, and lawfully. You can say it's like theft, because it's comparable in some respects, but you can't argue that it is theft, because it has been established by law that it's not.

I certainly can argue that it is theft. First of all, the law has NEVER established that. In fact, it's not that hard to find cases where copyright infringement is referred to as "theft" or "stealing" in the court summary. Second, since when did legal definitions hold any relevance whatsoever outside of a courtroom? By this thinking, you can't call robbery theft. Dictionary definitions are relevant here, and piracy fits the dictionary definition of stealing, and therefore of theft. Turning to legal arguments, ones you don't even understand for that matter, is grasping at straws.
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#132-CJF-Posted 2/25/2014 10:14:38 PM
I'm not saying piracy has had nothing to do with this mindset, but it definitely isn't the sole cause. If anything, it's much more likely that digital distribution as a whole, competition in the market (Indie devs, bundle websites, sales, etc), and the current economy are to blame.

To say it causes developers harm is ridiculous considering the number of sales being pushed out. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say the low price and availability of some of these games save the devs in certain situations. There was a story a while back about the developer of Cook, Serve, Delicious that goes into detail about how much money he made having his game Greenlit on Steam.

The developer made $22,624 from the mobile and desktop versions from January through October. When his game was Greenlit and featured in a Steam flash sale, he made over $50,000 in 8 hours. Over $130,000 total from having the game up on Steam for just three months.

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidGalindo/20140109/208337/How_much_do_indie_PC_devs_make_anyways_Part_V.php

Steam gives developers exposure to a huge audience they wouldn't otherwise get. They aren't forced to put their games on sale, it's their own choice to do so because they know it makes their games more attractive to the customer and more likely to sell.

Developers aren't forced to put their games on Steam at all. If they have a problem with Valve taking a cut, they are welcome to do what Ubisoft and EA have done and create their own DD platforms.

Developers don't even have to sell their games digitally if they don't want to. Of course, if they don't they know they are losing out on countless potential sales, but that's not piracy's fault and it's not Valve's fault. The only thing you can blame them for is existing in the first place. Steam has set a standard in the market, and yes, people are paying less for games, but that's innovation.

As for the argument of piracy being theft, its been beaten to death and it's really pointless to discuss it any further since it's obvious neither one of our views are going to change. Anti-piracy corporations, the RIAA, and the MPAA compare piracy with theft because they want to play the victim card. It's much harder to get sympathy and to paint an ugly picture using the term copyright infringement, so they call it theft.

This excerpt from the Wikipedia says it better than I could:

Copyright infringement is often associated with the terms piracy and theft. Although piracy literally means brazen high-seas robbery and kidnapping, it has a long history of use as a synonym for acts which were later codified as types of copyright infringement. Theft is hyperbole, emphasizing the potential commercial harm of infringement to copyright holders; however, not all copyright infringement results in commercial loss, and the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that infringement does not easily equate with theft.[1]

In the case MPAA v. Hotfile, Judge Kathleen Williams granted a motion to deny the prosecution the usage of pejorative words in the copyright infringement case.[2] This list included the words "piracy," "theft," "stealing," and their derivatives—the use of which, even if the defendants had been found to have directly infringed on the Plaintiffs’ copyrights, the defense asserted, would serve no purpose but to misguide and inflame the jury.[3] The plaintiff argued the common use of the terms when referring to copyright infringement should invalidate the motion, but the Judge did not concur.[4] (The case was however settled shortly before it reached the jury phase of the trial.[5])
#133The_Count_FooPosted 2/25/2014 10:35:29 PM
-CJF- posted...
I'm not saying piracy has had nothing to do with this mindset, but it definitely isn't the sole cause. If anything, it's much more likely that digital distribution as a whole, competition in the market (Indie devs, bundle websites, sales, etc), and the current economy are to blame.

To say it causes developers harm is ridiculous considering the number of sales being pushed out. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say the low price and availability of some of these games save the devs in certain situations. There was a story a while back about the developer of Cook, Serve, Delicious that goes into detail about how much money he made having his game Greenlit on Steam.

The developer made $22,624 from the mobile and desktop versions from January through October. When his game was Greenlit and featured in a Steam flash sale, he made over $50,000 in 8 hours. Over $130,000 total from having the game up on Steam for just three months.

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidGalindo/20140109/208337/How_much_do_indie_PC_devs_make_anyways_Part_V.php

Steam gives developers exposure to a huge audience they wouldn't otherwise get. They aren't forced to put their games on sale, it's their own choice to do so because they know it makes their games more attractive to the customer and more likely to sell.

Developers aren't forced to put their games on Steam at all. If they have a problem with Valve taking a cut, they are welcome to do what Ubisoft and EA have done and create their own DD platforms.

Developers don't even have to sell their games digitally if they don't want to. Of course, if they don't they know they are losing out on countless potential sales, but that's not piracy's fault and it's not Valve's fault. The only thing you can blame them for is existing in the first place. Steam has set a standard in the market, and yes, people are paying less for games, but that's innovation.

As for the argument of piracy being theft, its been beaten to death and it's really pointless to discuss it any further since it's obvious neither one of our views are going to change. Anti-piracy corporations, the RIAA, and the MPAA compare piracy with theft because they want to play the victim card. It's much harder to get sympathy and to paint an ugly picture using the term copyright infringement, so they call it theft.

This excerpt from the Wikipedia says it better than I could:

Copyright infringement is often associated with the terms piracy and theft. Although piracy literally means brazen high-seas robbery and kidnapping, it has a long history of use as a synonym for acts which were later codified as types of copyright infringement. Theft is hyperbole, emphasizing the potential commercial harm of infringement to copyright holders; however, not all copyright infringement results in commercial loss, and the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that infringement does not easily equate with theft.[1]

In the case MPAA v. Hotfile, Judge Kathleen Williams granted a motion to deny the prosecution the usage of pejorative words in the copyright infringement case.[2] This list included the words "piracy," "theft," "stealing," and their derivatives—the use of which, even if the defendants had been found to have directly infringed on the Plaintiffs’ copyrights, the defense asserted, would serve no purpose but to misguide and inflame the jury.[3] The plaintiff argued the common use of the terms when referring to copyright infringement should invalidate the motion, but the Judge did not concur.[4] (The case was however settled shortly before it reached the jury phase of the trial.[5])


Tl;dr
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#134Carbon_DeoxxysPosted 2/25/2014 10:41:09 PM
meh really its just easier to buy games
following instructions and having to put up with BS from torrented games is too much to deal with.
#135MasterDarkenPosted 2/25/2014 10:44:14 PM
Carbon_Deoxxys posted...
meh really its just easier to buy games
following instructions and having to put up with BS from torrented games is too much to deal with.


Cause click-to-play is so hard, right?
#136TheWhoFanPosted 2/25/2014 10:44:50 PM
Some people live by their username, it seems. Policing the behavior of others is so fun from behind that monitor!
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#137Carbon_DeoxxysPosted 2/25/2014 10:55:44 PM
MasterDarken posted...
Carbon_Deoxxys posted...
meh really its just easier to buy games
following instructions and having to put up with BS from torrented games is too much to deal with.


Cause click-to-play is so hard, right?


torrents arent as easy as click and play, you have to torrent them, install them, apply modified data, which might have a virus. Then there might be another required patch because the game might just keep deleting your save. Then it might still not work.

Why did you ask this?
Are you trying to back pirating?
Im simply saying its just easier to buy games.
#138Devil_wings00Posted 2/25/2014 11:16:11 PM
You stop piracy by offering offering the customer a compelling alternative. There was a time not to long ago where piracy was simply the easier solution to play most games because DRM was so virus like.

Now there is a compelling alternative and honestly stuff like steam/other services etc. are easier then torrenting a lot of games. Sometimes getting a game to work from a torrent can be a pain in the butt and sometimes torrented games have bugs that weren't in the original game. So not only do you have have to monitor the torrent sites for patches, that would be automatic in steam, but you have to look out for updated cracks and mods to make the game work properly.

You could do that or you could just wait until the game drops in price and buy in 75% off. You offer consumers better alternatives and look at that PC gaming has not only been revived (it was looking pretty in the mid 2000's) but PC gaming is bigger and more relevant then it EVER has been.

Piracy isn't dead but I'd say it has been marginalized significantly to the point where if a game fails on PC the developer can't just point a finger and go "it was piracy" anymore.
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#139BeerOnTapPosted 2/25/2014 11:18:48 PM
cody4783 posted...
Oh boy...Haven't seen this topic in a little while at least.


Mind if I set up a popcorn stand over in the corner? I'll see ya on the third page.


I would never buy popcorn anyways.

So it won't hurt you if I steal a bag from your stand when you aren't looking.
#140TimePharaohPosted 2/25/2014 11:20:28 PM
Carbon_Deoxxys posted...
MasterDarken posted...
Carbon_Deoxxys posted...
meh really its just easier to buy games
following instructions and having to put up with BS from torrented games is too much to deal with.


Cause click-to-play is so hard, right?


torrents arent as easy as click and play, you have to torrent them, install them, apply modified data, which might have a virus. Then there might be another required patch because the game might just keep deleting your save. Then it might still not work.

Why did you ask this?
Are you trying to back pirating?
Im simply saying its just easier to buy games.


No it's literally as easy as click>install. I'm sorry you don't understand computers.