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are you getting Titanfall?

#51Arsene-LupinPosted 3/10/2014 6:33:23 PM
Mechs = Awesome.
Online-Only = Not Awesome.

So I'm not going to buy it.
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"And you see where that can lead you, into what mistakes and absurdities, when you are dealing with a man like Arsene Lupin."
#52Orestes417Posted 3/10/2014 6:48:01 PM
DV8ingSources posted...
DaedalusEx posted...
DV8ingSources posted...
Only way that happens is with things like 'killstreaks'. Something Titanfall thankfully does not have. There is very little in most multiplayer games that is beyond a players control. I'd like to read some examples if you have any.


Player positioning. In Counter-Strike, all players spawn at the same point every round. This means that at any given time I know where the enemies can be (and likely are based on other information.) I know, for example, that no one is going to shoot me in the back before I get to the bombsite at Long A because it's physically impossible for an enemy to get behind me that quickly. I know that if my team goes to B and they're still alive I won't be seeing any enemies come from that direction. Knowing where the enemies can be and likely are allows me to control my positioning when I engage enemies and also when I'm engaged. Because of this, it's incredibly rare that I get shot in the back or killed from a position where I couldn't react.

I haven't played Titanfall so I don't know how the spawns work, but if it's anything like Call of Duty I'd expect to get shot in the back all the time because I have very limited control over my positioning.


Its possible to get unlucky sure, but its also just as possible to get lucky. Generally speaking, even in COD games, you can get to cover and come up with a plan to move forward. Only being able to know a 'procedure' rather than think on your toes is less skillful in my opinion.


Indeed. Skill is being able to adapt on the fly to whatever gets thrown at you and knowing how not to put yourself in stupid positions. Having the luxury of knowing where the enemy likely is is more of a crutch than anything.
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Bled dry from the inside, darkest of weather
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#53DaedalusExPosted 3/10/2014 6:52:37 PM(edited)
DV8ingSources posted...
Its possible to get unlucky sure, but its also just as possible to get lucky.


Which both diminish the influence of skill on the outcome. I don't think a player should ever feel lucky or unlucky in a multiplayer game. If I kill someone I want it to be because I played better, and if I die I want it to be because I was outplayed, so that I can identify my mistakes and play better next time. When I get kills or someone kills me because the spawn position gave someone an advantage, it feels like I had little say in the outcome, which isn't very fun at all.

Orestes417 posted...
Skill is being able to adapt on the fly to whatever gets thrown at you and knowing how not to put yourself in stupid positions.


There isn't much room to adapt when you die in less than a second.
#54DV8ingSourcesPosted 3/10/2014 7:00:53 PM(edited)
DaedalusEx posted...
DV8ingSources posted...
Its possible to get unlucky sure, but its also just as possible to get lucky.


Which both diminish the influence of skill on the outcome. I don't think a player should ever feel lucky or unlucky in a multiplayer game. If I kill someone I want it to be because I played better, and if I die I want it to be because I was outplayed, so that I can identify my mistakes and play better next time. When I get kills or someone kills me because the spawn position gave someone an advantage, it feels like I had little say in the outcome, which isn't very fun at all.


Well to be fair, it's pretty rare for that to happen. The spawning systems are a little better in most modern games. You need to also take into account that a full match isn't 1 life in these sorts of games. Sure you die once to a bad spawn. You can still spawn again and then kill 10 people for every death if you are skilled. The skill in these faster paced multi life games comes from the final scoreboard, not a single instance.

I loved search and destroy in COD4 for the same reasons you mentioned you enjoy CS. We all spawned at the same location, and you had 1 life. It was possible to learn a map so well that there really was a procedure. You might have some additional setups/paths through a level but the knowledge was finite. You knew how many people were alive, where they likely were and how you might 'trick' them into not knowing where YOU are.

Point being, you prefer slower more methodical play. You don't seem to appreciate the skill needed to play something a little more chaotic.

Edit: I'm not trying to turn this into some sort of subjective pissing match either. I acknowledge there is a lot of skill required for CS and other tactical more nuanced shooters. What I don't agree with is that those take more skill than a COD game (minus the killstreak idea).
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#55Orestes417Posted 3/10/2014 7:03:43 PM
That's the beauty of respawns, bad luck or poor timing are irrelevant over the course of a match.
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Bled dry from the inside, darkest of weather
I'll be your mirror we can shatter together
#56pitt12177Posted 3/10/2014 7:07:24 PM
Orestes417 posted...
DV8ingSources posted...
DaedalusEx posted...
DV8ingSources posted...
Only way that happens is with things like 'killstreaks'. Something Titanfall thankfully does not have. There is very little in most multiplayer games that is beyond a players control. I'd like to read some examples if you have any.


Player positioning. In Counter-Strike, all players spawn at the same point every round. This means that at any given time I know where the enemies can be (and likely are based on other information.) I know, for example, that no one is going to shoot me in the back before I get to the bombsite at Long A because it's physically impossible for an enemy to get behind me that quickly. I know that if my team goes to B and they're still alive I won't be seeing any enemies come from that direction. Knowing where the enemies can be and likely are allows me to control my positioning when I engage enemies and also when I'm engaged. Because of this, it's incredibly rare that I get shot in the back or killed from a position where I couldn't react.

I haven't played Titanfall so I don't know how the spawns work, but if it's anything like Call of Duty I'd expect to get shot in the back all the time because I have very limited control over my positioning.


Its possible to get unlucky sure, but its also just as possible to get lucky. Generally speaking, even in COD games, you can get to cover and come up with a plan to move forward. Only being able to know a 'procedure' rather than think on your toes is less skillful in my opinion.


Indeed. Skill is being able to adapt on the fly to whatever gets thrown at you and knowing how not to put yourself in stupid positions. Having the luxury of knowing where the enemy likely is is more of a crutch than anything.


lol wut? Stupidest thing I've read on Gamefaqs in a month.
#57Orestes417Posted 3/10/2014 7:11:44 PM
By all means, feel free to elucidate how being able to competently think on your feet does not equate to skill. Or perhaps how being able to deal with the unknown efficiently is any less skillful than taking on a preset scenario that's been endlessly analyzed. I'll wait. This should be profoundly amusing
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Bled dry from the inside, darkest of weather
I'll be your mirror we can shatter together
#58Born LuckyPosted 3/10/2014 8:04:03 PM
MELENTIA posted...
but they have dlc plans and no single player, and very little content for that price tag.


That pretty much sums it up for me as well.
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I was talking to the parrot - Poirot
#59XtremeWRATH360Posted 3/10/2014 8:23:07 PM
No interest at all, not a fan of the multiplayer only concept
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#60DaedalusExPosted 3/10/2014 9:59:35 PM(edited)
DV8ingSources posted...
You don't seem to appreciate the skill needed to play something a little more chaotic.


I do, though. I loved Quake and UT back in the day. The thing about those games, which also took a "meat grinder" approach, is that the outcome of a skirmish wasn't decided by who shot first. The player had time to adapt and respond when a fight didn't start under favorable conditions, rather than just dying.

The only way the <1 second kill times can work is if players have the means to manage positioning, otherwise you're removing a large chunk of skill and replacing it with chaos. CS knew this. CoD knew this, too, but intentionally went the chaotic route so that less skilled players could pick up some kills and not feel useless.

And fundamentally that's what it comes down to: accessibility vs. high skill ceiling. As far as I've observed, the two are mutually exclusive.