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are you getting Titanfall?

#71DV8ingSourcesPosted 3/10/2014 11:46:33 PM
Clouddx posted...
Titanfall certainly doesn't have a larger weapon pool than CS.


Sorry I merely meant variety. It was an unfair comparison as TF is based in the future but having 15 assault rifles that handle very similarly aside from their recoil direction and strength, isn't as varied as all the different weapon types in TF.
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#72ClouddxPosted 3/10/2014 11:54:58 PM
DV8ingSources posted...
Clouddx posted...
Titanfall certainly doesn't have a larger weapon pool than CS.


Sorry I merely meant variety. It was an unfair comparison as TF is based in the future but having 15 assault rifles that handle very similarly aside from their recoil direction and strength, isn't as varied as all the different weapon types in TF.


What would you consider "handling differently" if it's not the amount of recoil and the strength of the bullets? Each gun in CS is unique and requires time to master.
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#73DV8ingSourcesPosted 3/11/2014 12:01:43 AM
Clouddx posted...
DV8ingSources posted...
Clouddx posted...
Titanfall certainly doesn't have a larger weapon pool than CS.


Sorry I merely meant variety. It was an unfair comparison as TF is based in the future but having 15 assault rifles that handle very similarly aside from their recoil direction and strength, isn't as varied as all the different weapon types in TF.


What would you consider "handling differently" if it's not the amount of recoil and the strength of the bullets? Each gun in CS is unique and requires time to master.


Which is no different from COD or any other of these 'skill-less' games you (not specifically you, just the topic as a whole) are comparing it to. My entire point is that it takes skill to play any competitive shooter against human opponents. The rules are the same for everyone and those that learn to exploit the rules to their advantage will win... Even in COD, a crappy player will always be a crappy player. Sure they can get a couple kills but the good players will still stomp all over them. Again, familiarity with a game doesn't necessarily equate to skill. Getting used to a gun in CS might take a couple more rounds than some other games weapons, but that is only one aspect to the skill required. Using your skill to beat others exists in all mp shooters and as I mentioned already, I would be willing to bet the best COD players could compete easily with CS veterans in a neutral game.
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#74MaxP188Posted 3/11/2014 12:19:02 AM
No watching a twitch feed of angry joe shows me how boring in my mind this game is. Not one for Multiplayer games. looks generic and cod like. EA sucks too.
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#75DaedalusExPosted 3/11/2014 12:27:45 AM(edited)
DV8ingSources posted...
Headshots also do more damage in COD games, the recoil exists although definitely more muted.


I'm not going to address your list because I don't know enough about the game and I think most of them are subjective in terms of how they relate to skill. As for the headshots, this is false. The headshot multiplier in CoD is ~1.5x, depending on the weapon. CS is around 4x. This gives players who can aim accurately a much bigger advantage over players who can't.

Also ADS? Really? It takes more skill to NOT have to aim with different function?


Yes it does, because without ADS movement becomes more of a factor in the fight. Shooting a moving target while you're also moving requires much more skill than shooting a stationary target while stationary.

Getting used to a gun in CS might take a couple more rounds than some other games weapons, but that is only one aspect to the skill required.


Couple of rounds? Learning to spray a tight spread in a firefight takes weeks, months even. I've been playing CS on and off for years and I still mess it up when things are intense. I really don't think you know what you're talking about.

My entire point is that it takes skill to play any competitive shooter against human opponents.


Yes it does. And my point is that some games have more room than others to differentiate your skill from your opponents, i.e. a higher skill ceiling. Yes, CoD requires skill and yes, a good CoD player will beat a bad CoD player. But the gap between an elite CoD player and an average CoD player is much smaller than the gap between an elite CS player and an average CS player.
#76DV8ingSourcesPosted 3/11/2014 12:36:32 AM(edited)
DaedalusEx posted...
DV8ingSources posted...
Headshots also do more damage in COD games, the recoil exists although definitely more muted.


I'm not going to address your list because I don't know enough about the game and I think most of them are subjective in terms of how they relate to skill. As for the headshots, this is false. The headshot multiplier in CoD is ~1.5x, depending on the weapon. CS is around 4x. This gives players who can aim accurately a much bigger advantage over players who can't.

Also ADS? Really? It takes more skill to NOT have to aim with different function?


Yes it does, because without ADS movement becomes more of a factor in the fight. Shooting a moving target while you're also moving requires much more skill than shooting a stationary target while stationary.

Getting used to a gun in CS might take a couple more rounds than some other games weapons, but that is only one aspect to the skill required.


Couple of rounds? Learning to spray a tight spread in a firefight takes weeks, months even. I've been playing CS on and off for years and I still mess it up when things are intense. I really don't think you know what you're talking about.

My entire point is that it takes skill to play any competitive shooter against human opponents.


Yes it does. And my point is that some games have more room than others to differentiate your skill from your opponents, i.e. a higher skill ceiling. Yes, CoD requires skill and yes, a good CoD player will beat a bad CoD player. But the gap between an elite CoD player and an average CoD player is much smaller than the gap between an elite CS player and an average CS player.


So you honestly think a top end CS player will hands down beat a top end COD player in a different game completely? I don't share that opinion at all. COD can't be 'mastered' in any less time than CS. You don't master something when the meta is always changing due to human players. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here because we're talking in circles now.

The skill differential in COD can be just as great. I'd also wager the scrub to elite player ratio is nearly the same. You can't compare games with such vastly different mechanics to one another and claim the skill levels are vastly different when both require precise aim and execution of the games mechanics.

I'm not taking anything away from CS players as I already mentioned. I'm just saying that elite gamers are elite gamers and the game is only a medium to display the skill.
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#77DaedalusExPosted 3/11/2014 12:44:20 AM
DV8ingSources posted...
So you honestly think a top end CS player will hands down beat a top end COD player in a different game completely?


No, I never said anything like that. I'm confused as to where you got that from. All I said is that CS has a higher skill ceiling than CoD.

Out of curiousity, do you acknowledge that chess requires more skill to play than checkers, or do both games require the same amount of skill because you're playing against a human opponent?
#78MuhammadJAPosted 3/11/2014 2:10:59 AM
If it was on Steam with no extra DRM, yes.
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#79TimePharaohPosted 3/11/2014 2:13:52 AM
If you could get modded for having a terrible opinion, this topic would be half empty with deleted DV8ingSources posts as he gets banned into oblivion.
#80DV8ingSourcesPosted 3/11/2014 10:46:03 AM(edited)
DaedalusEx posted...
DV8ingSources posted...
So you honestly think a top end CS player will hands down beat a top end COD player in a different game completely?


No, I never said anything like that. I'm confused as to where you got that from. All I said is that CS has a higher skill ceiling than CoD.

Out of curiousity, do you acknowledge that chess requires more skill to play than checkers, or do both games require the same amount of skill because you're playing against a human opponent?


Not a valid comparison by any means. Chess and checkers don't have the same pieces or the same rules. COD and CS both have guns and the point is to shoot the other person. I love how this keeps being brought up when it truly is an apples to oranges comparison. It would be more akin to Chess vs Xiangqi. The objective is the same and the process only differs slightly. If CS really did have a higher skill ceiling then why wouldn't they smoke a COD player in a neutral 3rd game? Because familiarization doesn't equate to skill, or rather, being skilled at one game doesn't make you inherently skilled in another.
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