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KickStarter, supporters of Occulus Rift. Demanding Refund

#81CovenantPosted 3/27/2014 1:35:15 AM
It was not reasonable to think that $250,000 was going to be sufficient to deliver on a project of this magnitude. As such, the reasonable conclusion is that, at some point, they will seek real investors.

From the very beginning, everyone should have known this was going to end up in the hands of some entity with a huge amount of money and interest in turning it towards their ends.
#82TaintedEonPosted 3/27/2014 2:12:03 AM
So by some of you's logic...if I donate to cancer research and a cure for cancer is made and sold, then I must be given money from the profits?

If I buy a music CD from a indy artist and he uses that money to build a studio and then become a major best-seller I deserve a cut?

If I buy a online print of a novel from an aspiring author and he becomes a New York Times Best Seller I get shares?

Seriously? What world do some of you live in?
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#83TrueGBPosted 3/27/2014 2:13:29 AM
Can't blame them. It's like hiring a guy to perform a service and then that guy uses your money to hire a different guy to do the work for him, makes sure the guy will work for less, and then pockets the difference. In the end, the guy you paid for did nothing and you got someone else whom you know nothing about.
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#84TaintedEonPosted 3/27/2014 2:16:45 AM
Except that analogy doesn't make sense. Kickstarter is a donation based website where you get a up-front reward for donating. They got their reward, and now are pissed about something that only INVESTORS have a claim in.
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#85TaintedEonPosted 3/27/2014 2:17:46 AM
*So if you wanted to go with that example...

It's like paying a guy to perform a service and then the guy uses his money to buy better quality equipment to perform a better service on another house. Do you really think you have some sort of claim that the person needs to come back and give you a different service (reward) for using your money to better his situation?
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#86Saga3Posted 3/27/2014 2:26:49 AM
Kickstarter backings are classed as donations and not investments thus they owe nothing in return.
/thread
#87Kungfu KenobiPosted 3/27/2014 2:33:36 AM
justchill433 posted...

I do not know the actual wording of the kickstarter pitch, so I can't say if the funders are legally obligated to a refund, but they have every right to be angry. Facebook should honestly just give them a refund to save public opinion.


There's definitely no legal obligation other than to produce the project in-line with their stated goals (and I believe that's more than likely on track despite Facebook) and deliver on any backer incentives. Anyone that takes the position that this is what the backers are owed, and nothing else is legally correct.



But I don't think the legal matter is the whole story. This was a very unpopular move, and I doubt many would have contributed to Oculus Rift as a Facebook venture from the get-go, even with the same wording and same everything. In a post above I talk about Essentialism, and cover that point there. People weren't just backing a product, they were backing an idea, and that idea is GONE. I think people taking the legalistic view of things are kinda depressing. To them I say it's good not to be dicks to each other. It's kind of a dick move to hang on to peoples' money when you do something with it they would have never supported your doing in the first place, even if that thing is within your legal right to do, and especially when you've become obscenely wealthy in the process and nolonger need it.
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#88MadoifPosted 3/27/2014 4:50:45 AM
Kungfu Kenobi posted...
justchill433 posted...

I do not know the actual wording of the kickstarter pitch, so I can't say if the funders are legally obligated to a refund, but they have every right to be angry. Facebook should honestly just give them a refund to save public opinion.


There's definitely no legal obligation other than to produce the project in-line with their stated goals (and I believe that's more than likely on track despite Facebook) and deliver on any backer incentives. Anyone that takes the position that this is what the backers are owed, and nothing else is legally correct.



But I don't think the legal matter is the whole story. This was a very unpopular move, and I doubt many would have contributed to Oculus Rift as a Facebook venture from the get-go, even with the same wording and same everything. In a post above I talk about Essentialism, and cover that point there. People weren't just backing a product, they were backing an idea, and that idea is GONE. I think people taking the legalistic view of things are kinda depressing. To them I say it's good not to be dicks to each other. It's kind of a dick move to hang on to peoples' money when you do something with it they would have never supported your doing in the first place, even if that thing is within your legal right to do, and especially when you've become obscenely wealthy in the process and nolonger need it.


You're absolutely right. As much as it is within their right to sell out to facebook, it ensures that there is a stain on the name of Oculus Rift and Kickstarter.

Despite it being legal it's still a bad move and all the people being callous towards the backers are lacking in empathy.

There is no legal obligation but there are expectations to uphold.
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#89r7gerrabbitPosted 3/27/2014 5:12:36 AM
The Kickstarter was for the Dev kits.
Nobody is an investor, you donate money on Kickstarter, you are NOT buying a product.
All promises from the Kickstarter were fulfilled.

Bunch of entitled babies.
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#90SilentHawk29Posted 3/27/2014 8:22:40 AM
R i c k posted...
Nope! You only get a refund if the Kickstarter fails to meet it's primary monetary goal. If the primary goal isn't met, everyone gets back their donation. If the primary goal is met then your money is gone forever, regardless of whether the project gets finished or not.


This isn't true. The amount you pledge isn't deducted until the project succeeds. All you're doing when pledging is agreeing that money will be deducted if the project succeeds after the time limit is up.

Covenant posted...
It was not reasonable to think that $250,000 was going to be sufficient to deliver on a project of this magnitude. As such, the reasonable conclusion is that, at some point, they will seek real investors.


They didn't just get $250k in funding. The kickstarter got them $2.5 million, 100 times what they were asking for. On top of that, they received another $75 million in funding afterwards from Andreessen Horowitz. They had the funds, they just sold out. If anyone has a right to complain, it's definitely that firm.
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