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Why do people hate MMOs?

#51SinfullyvannilaPosted 3/28/2014 5:48:33 AM
People who hate MMOs generally articulate their reasons clearly.
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#52Games_AnalystPosted 3/28/2014 6:52:38 AM
They are fun the first time you EVER play one. Then it's done because it's all the same thing. Go here, get item, kill thing, gain xp, level, repeat. End game, do dungeons or PVP.

It's all the same thing, there's nothing different about the genre and there will never be anything different.

Now that's the same thing with most RPGs. Go here, collect item, kill thing, gain XP, level, etc. but the story and game world CAN drastically change because it's a single player game. That's why games like Mass Effect/Dragon Age/FFantasy (although a good one hasn't been mande in a while) etc. are so popular. The budget can go into graphics, sound, speech, and unique gameplay/world design instead of servers and interfacing.

I don't think anyone hates MMOs, people are just tired of them. Blizzard made WOW at just the right time. Most MMOs prior to WOW were not catered to casual gameplay and were very 'hardcore' in nature. WOW made it much easier for someone to jump in and offered a graphical environment that was very friendly and warm which helped drive parent approval, etc. Blizzard was also at the height of their popularity and had a huge following from SC/WC3/D2 LOD.

I'm done playing MMOs. Played WOW pretty intensively, tried SW Old Republic, tried Warhammer Online, and some others.... but nope. None have hooked me beyond a couple weeks.

Just better games out there. Currently playing Far Cry 3, Hearthstone (off/on), D3 (off/on, haven't bought Xpac, prob. wont lol), Assassin's Creed Black, and Elder Scrolls.
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#53SienrurouniPosted 3/28/2014 11:23:55 AM
bjergmose posted...


u can buy tekken and play it for 2 months..then u have everything there...and u dont play it alot after that...just like alot of single player game..u beat it 3-4 times..and then ur done...and u hardly ever play it again..ever

mmo = u never finish..there is always something new. or soemthing to keep u goin..and i am not talking about p2w..or pay per month mmo's..those sucks


A fighting game is literally the worst example you could pick to demonstrate that point.
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#54x ShadowPosted 3/28/2014 11:51:23 AM
KillerTruffle posted...
Aside from the ridiculous amounts of time wasting at the core of the genre, repetitive quests, immersion-breaking chatter from other players, and general drudgery, another thing that always sucks me out of the genre is the way the stories are presented and played.

"You alone are our last hope!" [aside from the other 5 million players on the server...] "Thank you for killing those monsters. We'd have been lost without you!" [because the previous 1.5 billion of these monsters killed by all the various other players didn't cut it - these last 5 you just killed were the breaking point, and the fact that they keep on respawning even now is totally cool with us...]

The way the quests and stories are designed to try and make you feel like this epic fighter that the fate of the world hinges around is just ridiculous. The concept falls apart in so many places it's laughable.


Lol are you me? I've thrown that middle paragraph out so many times when ranting about the genre. Agreed with everything here 100%. Not to mention the stale mechanics, honestly. They always seem to use fairly similar types of battle systems (among other things), with minor variations.

Like you generally know, going into any MMORPG, a few things:
1. You'll have equips.
2. You'll have to grind for levels and equips.
3. There will be quests.
4. Quests give experience, as well as killing monsters.
5. There will generally be crafting.
6. You'll have to collect materials to craft, and you'll have to level up your crafting to do better crafting.

7. Everything is a grind.
8-X. Etc. Etc.

Almost everyone takes this blueprint and puts very minor twists on it. This is as formulaic as the actual formula's outcome. The entire genre's purpose is to be a cash cow.

That's not to say that this repetition and hanging out with people can't be fun. It can. However, you have to regularly stop and question your motives. Ask yourself if you're really having fun doing this, or if you're playing it like some kind of addict that can't stop.
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#55Silent Sniper IVPosted 3/28/2014 1:54:28 PM(edited)
Games_Analyst posted...
They are fun the first time you EVER play one. Then it's done because it's all the same thing. Go here, get item, kill thing, gain xp, level, repeat. End game, do dungeons or PVP.


Yep, that's the core of it. I played EQ/UO till' the cows came home and thought the genre had limitless potential. I was happy with vanilla wow/TBC and was server first for most endgame content because I played with a former EQ raid guild that could do the most simple of tasks without causing a wipe like most of the derps on our server.

The problem is that after that, what we got was nearly a full decade of abject stagnation with everyone copying the wow model and doing it poorly and with less content. An example is FFXIV: We hit the level cap in literally under a week (Our true poopsockers managed to hit it in 3-4 days. I got there in about 2 weeks, while playing pretty casually) or so and finished coil content (That was available) in 1-2 months. Then everyone in the guild just quit, and haven't been lured back for the new stuff yet. This is how almost every MMO has been since wow. MMOs are astoundingly easy when you have competent players and don't pug it up with scrubs.

The hope for the genre lies in the next gen games. EQN Looks pretty damn cool, and I'm hoping we see some neat stuff come out of that.

I think the trinity absolutely needs to go, as it's a relic of dikumud and makes most stuff a joke. I also want to see 'collect 10 bear asses' and "!" quest hubs go away. Also- horizontal progression, because who the hell wants a massive game designed with dozens of level 1 zones when you spend 10 hours blasting through each tier and then spend literally a year at the level cap ignoring 95% of the content?
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#56Orestes417Posted 3/28/2014 1:54:31 PM
1. What precisely would you replace the trinity with while maintaining some degree of encounter depth?

2. The best players on the planet taking a few weeks to down the hardest encounters in the game while they still matter after a month or two of practice on PTRs would speak volumes on how "easy" MMOs are when it comes to progression. Nothing after that matters much for a serious discussion of difficulty.
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#57KillerTrufflePosted 3/28/2014 2:02:32 PM
Orestes417 posted...
1. What precisely would you replace the trinity with while maintaining some degree of encounter depth?

2. The best players on the planet taking a few weeks to down the hardest encounters in the game while they still matter after a month or two of practice on PTRs would speak volumes on how "easy" MMOs are when it comes to progression. Nothing after that matters much for a serious discussion of difficulty.


RE: 2 - At that point, it doesn't strike me as related to difficulty so much as willingness to just put up with the time involved. If anything, encounters that take "weeks" to beat strike me as more grind than anything else - in a genre built around grind.
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#58TireseasPosted 3/28/2014 2:22:07 PM(edited)
KillerTruffle posted...
Orestes417 posted...
1. What precisely would you replace the trinity with while maintaining some degree of encounter depth?

2. The best players on the planet taking a few weeks to down the hardest encounters in the game while they still matter after a month or two of practice on PTRs would speak volumes on how "easy" MMOs are when it comes to progression. Nothing after that matters much for a serious discussion of difficulty.


RE: 2 - At that point, it doesn't strike me as related to difficulty so much as willingness to just put up with the time involved. If anything, encounters that take "weeks" to beat strike me as more grind than anything else - in a genre built around grind.


You've never been in a progression raiding guild. Take it from someone who has that you don't know what you're talking about. Learning an encounter, formulating a strategy and practicing your execution as a 25 man unit till you finally beat that last boss and get loot for classes that aren't even in the raid is one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had in *any* game ever. The feeling when that combination of skill and luck clicks perfectly for the first time is indescribable. Now, farming it for weeks on end between progression periods... that's a grind.

EDIT: Yes it's still me, switched devices and usernames with it.

EDIT 2: In case you're thinking that you're guaranteed to eventually get boss kills if you throw enough time at them, no you aren't. Believe me when I say that. They may get nerfed down to your skill level, you may get new bodies who are more talented, but you aren't going to win on sheer time invested.

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#59Silent Sniper IVPosted 3/28/2014 2:28:54 PM(edited)
Orestes417 posted...
1. What precisely would you replace the trinity with while maintaining some degree of encounter depth?

2. The best players on the planet taking a few weeks to down the hardest encounters in the game while they still matter after a month or two of practice on PTRs would speak volumes on how "easy" MMOs are when it comes to progression. Nothing after that matters much for a serious discussion of difficulty.


1) Much, much more utility spells, reaction abilities. Move back towards the D&D model of higher emphasis on stuns, crowd controls, get-out-of-jail-free cards like divine aura, globes of invulnerability, blur, shadow door, and so on. The model of "Keep aggro on your main tank while the same monster hits him for 3 minutes while your healers chain heal" is boring as hell and needs to go away. This is precisely what EQnext is claiming to do. AI should absolutely be switching targets on the fly and not providing a predictable enough experience to sleep through.

2) Is only because of the initial gear grind, bugs, and poor tuning of encounters typically. Which is why you get roadblocks that demolish people in lower tiers, but then difficulties past that are often cake.
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#60TireseasPosted 3/28/2014 2:37:07 PM(edited)
1. I'll agree there needs to be more emphasis on situational abilities, but you still need specialized roles otherwise you end up risking a zergfest cluster **** that's shallower than Paris Hilton's thought process. See GW2 for a glaring example.

2. So basically you're saying things are easy post nerf and overgeared? No **** Sherlock. That's why nothing after initial progression means a damn thing as a measuring stick of difficulty. Any idiot can overgear an encounter while using a plan that's been drawn out for them on a boss that's been nerfed to tourist difficulty.

You also seem to be missing a fact a lot of people do. With WoW and a lot of games like it, when a new Tier comes out it isn't built to pick up from where the "Heroic" progression of the last tier left off. It's balanced around people wearing normal mode gear. So when a guild that's been doing heroic progression goes into the next tier's normal mode they're already overgearing it by a wide margin. The challenge doesn't pick back up till the heroic modes are unlocked again.

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