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When does a company have the balls...

#21SinisterSlayPosted 4/4/2014 11:27:34 AM(edited)
Bellum_Sacrum posted...
SinisterSlay posted...
All I ask for is Rakion combat in an MMO world and have levels have minimal impact, have it 99% skill based.
Also, no grinding for crafting and as few kill x and collect y of z requests as possible.


You just described the first Guild Wars.


Guild wars has a hot bar for skills, instant fail. If the game has any "press button, awesome happens" then it's not skill based, its level based.

Skill based is like jumping, doging, planning, weak spots, kiting. If I press left click then right click I do a combo, but left click left click right click will combo and stun the enemy so I can hold right click and do a forward motion while releasing to do extra damage.
I suspect most here have never played Rakion.
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He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence
#22KillerTrufflePosted 4/4/2014 11:32:22 AM
Guild Wars is more skill-based than most MMOs, but it does indeed depend primarily on skill levels and armor to provide stats for dodging, critical hits, etc. It wouldn't hurt to see an MMO take the combat and skill concepts of GW, but make them more actual skill based - you can physically move your character to dodge an attack vs. depending on a stat roll, for instance.

However, I would totally NOT want to get rid of levels having an effect, because if you do that, you lose a whole lot of incentive to play, since you've lost progression. A huge part of the fun of RPGs is leveling your character, making it better. If you pull that aspect out, you've pretty much created an MMOFPS, not an MMORPG.
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#23LordClydePosted 4/4/2014 11:53:47 AM
Lime Odyssey had that annoying ass crafting system you're looking for. You even had to craft HP pots.

Terrible system, especially if people can camp and monopolize the material spawn.
#24Orestes417Posted 4/4/2014 11:55:34 AM
KillerTruffle posted...
Guild Wars is more skill-based than most MMOs, but it does indeed depend primarily on skill levels and armor to provide stats for dodging, critical hits, etc. It wouldn't hurt to see an MMO take the combat and skill concepts of GW, but make them more actual skill based - you can physically move your character to dodge an attack vs. depending on a stat roll, for instance.

However, I would totally NOT want to get rid of levels having an effect, because if you do that, you lose a whole lot of incentive to play, since you've lost progression. A huge part of the fun of RPGs is leveling your character, making it better. If you pull that aspect out, you've pretty much created an MMOFPS, not an MMORPG.


You don't need levels to have progression. Just move the progression into alternative means of acquisition like quests and make it nonlinear.
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#25RheygarPosted 4/4/2014 12:04:18 PM
Haven't found anything like UO, still mess around on free shards once in awhile. Dark Souls is what I spend most of my gaming time on now.
#26fallenswordsPosted 4/4/2014 12:08:21 PM
0cu_87 posted...
...to make a new real MMORPG? Emphasis on RPG.
Somehow like Ultima Online RP Freeshards.. like

- You are not the "chosen one" besides 100 others
- You live a normal life and are a merchant/fisher/artisan/hunter/militiaman
- Combat "classes" should be hard to grow into
- You have to craft everything, there are no NPC merchants
- Realistic needs like food/drink/sleep
- Long time to "level"
- PVP everywhere with a bounty system
- RvRvR

With TESO, there's just another theme park MMO.


so, EVE online?
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#27PhilOnDezPosted 4/4/2014 12:08:36 PM
KillerTruffle posted...
Guild Wars is more skill-based than most MMOs, but it does indeed depend primarily on skill levels and armor to provide stats for dodging, critical hits, etc. It wouldn't hurt to see an MMO take the combat and skill concepts of GW, but make them more actual skill based - you can physically move your character to dodge an attack vs. depending on a stat roll, for instance.


Wildstar has that to an extent, sprint and dodge rolls and you can see where any attack (aside from NPC autoattacks which don't do much damage) is going to land. It does still have stat/proc/activated automatic avoidance but the idea is for you to avoid every attack yourself or be punished(severely). Unless they've changed it from the last livestream you can take 2-3 hits and you're down. PvP is a lot different though since players do a lot less damage and will land a lot more hits since they can continue aiming their attacks after starting the windup.

However, I would totally NOT want to get rid of levels having an effect, because if you do that, you lose a whole lot of incentive to play, since you've lost progression. A huge part of the fun of RPGs is leveling your character, making it better. If you pull that aspect out, you've pretty much created an MMOFPS, not an MMORPG.


This is my biggest problem with Defiance. Leveling up is so limited in its effect and has no effect on the gear you get aside from the gear having whatever level you are as a prerequisite to equipping it. At launch, even the different qualities of weapons had no appreciable effect. The engineer's starting LMG was 90% as good as a level 5000 legendary LMG. They've fixed this some by leaving legendary stats alone and making everything else worse but once you find/buy an orange with decent bonuses it's the last weapon of that type you'll ever need.
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#28SinisterSlayPosted 4/4/2014 12:21:41 PM(edited)
Ok It's clear none of you played Rakion, so I'll be more descriptive of what I'd want to see in an MMORPG.

You still level up, and enemies still have levels.
You by default have every possible skill and combination for your character.
At level up you can assign skill points that boost various areas of attacks, attack speed, move speed, range attack power, melee attack power, special attack power, etc. These get applied to the combos your character already has.

Enemies sort of get stronger (mostly more health) but generally its just different AI (think Zelda games) and enemy move sets. Fighting a charging bull is very different than fighting a dragon.

So in theory, a level 1 that knows how to use their range weapons could take down that dragon. Leveling up and increasing your stats would make it easier but that's it.
You still have your sense of progression, but nothing is actually holding you back. The dragon isn't going to 1 hit kill you because hes 90 levels stronger than you.
Equipment only boosts stats in a minor way, a certain weapon might make your attack speed slightly faster, some boots might make your move speed slightly faster. Maybe a weapon is a bit longer giving you more range on your attacks. Some arrows might have less of an arc, some bows can fire farther and faster. But there is never a time when you say "this sword is better because it does 200 damage and the other only does 100"
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He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence
#29CpazrunPosted 4/4/2014 12:36:54 PM
This will literally never happen. The costs associated with creating an MMO with the depth and complexity of those mechanics will never be recouped because you're describing an extremely niche title. The audience simply isn't there.
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#30SinisterSlayPosted 4/4/2014 12:42:58 PM
Cpazrun posted...
This will literally never happen. The costs associated with creating an MMO with the depth and complexity of those mechanics will never be recouped because you're describing an extremely niche title. The audience simply isn't there.


So the solution is to create yet more terrible WoW clones that all eventually fail?
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He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence