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When does a company have the balls...

#51hyjinx17Posted 4/4/2014 3:02:04 PM
0cu_87 posted...
...to make a new real MMORPG? Emphasis on RPG.
Somehow like Ultima Online RP Freeshards.. like

- You are not the "chosen one" besides 100 others
- You live a normal life and are a merchant/fisher/artisan/hunter/militiaman
- Combat "classes" should be hard to grow into
- You have to craft everything, there are no NPC merchants
- Realistic needs like food/drink/sleep
- Long time to "level"
- PVP everywhere with a bounty system
- RvRvR

With TESO, there's just another theme park MMO.


and welcome to "How to build the most boring time wasting MMO in history! Your host this week, Ocu_87"
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#52KabtheMentatPosted 4/4/2014 5:08:52 PM
Silent Sniper IV posted...
Ness0123456789 posted...

I tried getting some PnP nerding on with roll20 and met a few friendly people. But the biggest problem I had was 99% of the games were Pathfinder or some other D&D variant. I'm sure those are cool games and all, but I'm into something like Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, or Vampires the Masquerade.

Literally impossible to get those going. I would've started my own groups/games but I don't have much PnP experience and would make a dreadful DM.


It's typically because they're overly convoluted. A handful of people I know got together to try to do shadowrun recently, and the ruleset was just such a convoluted mess that at when all was said and done, none of us wanted to play anymore. Check somethingawfuls P&P forum, they have active players for most of those games last I checked.


You dun goofed in the quote, but yeah. I've read through the newer rule book for Shadowrun before and it does seem complicated, but I suspect having one person that's familiar with the rules and willing to teach and it wouldn't be any tougher than most other PnP game rules.

But that doesn't explain the lack of Vampire stuff. It's a pretty cool universe and the rules seem somewhat simple (at least compared to Shadowrun's), it's different from the average sword and sorcery game...yet there's nothing for it.
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#53fallenswordsPosted 4/5/2014 7:33:45 AM
Sinfullyvannila posted...
Cpazrun posted...
This will literally never happen. The costs associated with creating an MMO with the depth and complexity of those mechanics will never be recouped because you're describing an extremely niche title. The audience simply isn't there.

to be fair, how many unique users does eve have? IIRC most serious player have 4+ accounts.
EVE Online says otherwise.

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#54SpazH3dPosted 4/5/2014 7:46:44 AM
Ness0123456789 posted...
GW1 had a level cap of 20, reachable in literally an hour or two


Tell me your secrets. It LITERALLY sounds impossible. Is it some PVP thing? Because the PVE campaign doesn't throw millions of XP at you from the first area.
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#550cu_87(Topic Creator)Posted 4/6/2014 10:36:11 PM(edited)
.....I didn't expect such an attention and load of answers on my topic. Usually they go under and disappear in the archives.

I think Vindication123 and SinisterSlay got my idea, my vision of a game. It's hard to put the idea into words though. I'm no native english speaker, so I got problems with that. Maybe it will become clearer when I put games into context where I got my inspiration from.

The first of all Monster Hunter (especially the first). Embarking together on a quest to put down something big and gather its materials is just great. This game had one of the best progression. The lack of a trading system for materials of higher rarity made it even better.. something Vindictus has problems with, because its auction house is loaded with rare materials for a low price.

What Monster Hunter lacks is a proper class system with stats and skills. Ultima Online and maybe to an extent Demon's / Dark Souls have awesome systems for those IMHO. Total freedom for creating your OWN character. This is one thing newer MMO have problems with, because the skills depend on the weapon you are using. I think a game needs choices. The player needs choices to make and every choice he does, the bonds to his character will be stronger. Also, no real levels. A SL in Demon's and Dark Souls doesn't mean that much.

The economy system should be like EVE Online. I admit I don't play it and I haven't tried it before, because I don't like the setting. But an economy system which is built like a pyramid (Resources > Refining > Crafting) will make things interesting. You shouldn't be able to buy anything useful from NPC vendors. This will make social interaction as important as it should be in a MMO.

The eat/drink/sleeping system was a bit exaggerated on my side, I admit. You should be able to open a shop in your AFK time or when you log out.

Tell me what you're thinking about this.

SinisterSlay posted...
I hate crafting. It's just an extra grind on top of all the other grinds.


The term "grind" is kind of overused.. it's a thin line between fun and boring.

Sinfullyvannila posted...
Have you read anything about the new Everquest game coming out? It sounds like the PCs are actually going to be pioneering it.


Yes I did. This is the only MMO besides Albion Online where I'm really excited about. Everything else has disappointed me so far. And WoW was the only MMO I played like a freak, before its first expansion came out.

Vindication123 posted...
Problem with PvP everywhere is bullying interference with a persons ability to play and enjoy the game. Solutions would be a duel like system for towns or areas with large concentrations of people, a guard or police force that goes after anyone seen brandishing weapons or magic.


I think the problem nowadays is the gamer's community, which exploits any game mechanic to ruin the fun for others. The most notable example is DayZ. A crime system or law enforcement by players would make it interesting.

Spidey555 posted...
People want to play a game that is fun, not one that may resemble real life. People play to escape and experience. I don't want to play a game sitting in a corner for 8 real hours making things out of wood.


I said nothing about 8 hours. As written before, it's a thin line between cheesy, fun and boring. I think the ability to escape real life and experience another world is more dependent on the setting than on the gameplay.

OreoBoy206 posted...
http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/29/5559608/shards-citadel-studios


Thank you sir.
#56Lonestar2000Posted 4/7/2014 2:59:05 AM
0cu_87 posted...
...to make a new real MMORPG? Emphasis on RPG.
Somehow like Ultima Online RP Freeshards.. like

- You are not the "chosen one" besides 100 others
- You live a normal life and are a merchant/fisher/artisan/hunter/militiaman
- Combat "classes" should be hard to grow into
- You have to craft everything, there are no NPC merchants
- Realistic needs like food/drink/sleep
- Long time to "level"
- PVP everywhere with a bounty system
- RvRvR

With TESO, there's just another theme park MMO.

Your game sounds f***ing horrible.
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#57KillerTrufflePosted 4/7/2014 9:38:56 AM
KabtheMentat posted...
Silent Sniper IV posted...
KabtheMentat posted...
Dawnshadow posted...
KabtheMentat posted...
Honestly, there needs to be some kinda site/program that allows of easy table top pen and paper RPG playing with people across the Intarwebz.


Something like http://roll20.net/ ?


Something like that. It's a step in the right direction, but still not, I don't know...user friendly enough? Needs something that's easy for newbies to break into if they wish, and old timers can find players easily.

And the UI needs work. Problem with a lot of programs that do this is that they have terrible UIs.


I've been using roll20 recently for a D&D game, and it really is pretty fantastic. It just takes a bit of time to get your macros and custom stuff setup. It's a lot more user-friendly if you buy-in apparently, but we've done fine without dropping any cash


I tried getting some PnP nerding on with roll20 and met a few friendly people. But the biggest problem I had was 99% of the games were Pathfinder or some other D&D variant. I'm sure those are cool games and all, but I'm into something like Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, or Vampires the Masquerade.

Literally impossible to get those going. I would've started my own groups/games but I don't have much PnP experience and would make a dreadful DM.


A VtM game on there could be pretty cool, but it would take quite a bit of work to set it all up I think (assuming you wanted the tables and stuff built into the game). Still, Roll20 is a pretty nice interface for what it is. There are a few things I'd change about it to have the "perfect" recreation of pen & paper experience, but it's the closest I've found so far.

I actually just registered for an account recently... I used to GM MERPS (on actual pen & paper) for a very long time and had a blast doing it, and got started on a VtM game, but didn't really get to get into it much before most of our group each went our own ways (it was at the end of college). We had a great group - everyone totally into the story aspect of roleplaying more than the typical competitive player you hear about always causing trouble. And everyone tended to love the plots I came up with as well as my GM style. I'm actually looking to see if Roll20 is a reasonable way to get the group back together now that we're all around the world (Australia, Japan, and across the US).
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#58Silent Sniper IVPosted 4/7/2014 11:42:28 AM(edited)
^ Re: roll20. It works amazing in basically every aspect, except one. The audio is TERRIBLE and has no push to talk. do yourself a favor and use skype for that. I've been playing with my group thats scattered across the world too, and it works great. I don't think theres anything about it that has been an issue. I especially love stuff like auto-tracking for initiative list and macros. It takes so much of the small annoying stuff out of it.

KabtheMentat posted...
You dun goofed in the quote, but yeah. I've read through the newer rule book for Shadowrun before and it does seem complicated, but I suspect having one person that's familiar with the rules and willing to teach and it wouldn't be any tougher than most other PnP game rules.

But that doesn't explain the lack of Vampire stuff. It's a pretty cool universe and the rules seem somewhat simple (at least compared to Shadowrun's), it's different from the average sword and sorcery game...yet there's nothing for it.


I don't know about vampire because I'm not interested in that universe, but every DM I know who's run a shadowrun game just refuses to play anymore when stuff like GURPS exists instead. The explanation I got on shadowrun is that the game gets stupidly bogged down in minutia and combat consists of rolling dozens more times than D&D and doing lots of stupid rolls, with players often needing 15-20+ dice for single rounds.

It's a pity because I love the shadowrun universe, but no one I've met who's played it ever wants to play a second time. People tend to like streamlined games that move fast, and I think D&D keeps on getting better and better about that.


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#59KillerTrufflePosted 4/7/2014 12:08:29 PM
VtM uses standard D10's, doesn't it? I thought that's what I recalled anyway. I actually do really like systems that stick to D10 (or D100) for everything - it keeps things simpler. I don't like messing with D4, D6, D10, D12, etc. That's a big reason I never got into D&D directly - I just ported D&D content over to Rolemaster (MERPS) as necessary. Playing the Rolemaster system with pen & paper was great because all anyone needed was two D10s, and that was it.

Never tried Shadowrun, but it doesn't sound like a system I'd really enjoy. My feeling is that any universe I want to play in, I can adapt it to run on Rolemaster somehow if I don't like the system. I don't recall having to do that with VtM tho. I'm really disappointed we didn't even get to scratch the surface with VtM, because I had a huge campaign roughed out, and I love all the intrigue, political backstabbing and positioning, clan dynamics, etc. It's a pretty complex world.
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#60Xeeh_BitzPosted 4/7/2014 12:19:04 PM
TC, you don't need a game for that. Just get a job at a factory and it'll fulfill your need for boring repetitious activities
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