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Thoughts on Blizzard Ent company and their games?

#31Worknofun370Posted 4/21/2014 1:57:01 PM
Gynthaeres posted...
Balance-wise, at high levels, I think most people agree that Protoss is pretty imbalanced, and in need of a redesign overall. Beyond that, at highest levels, I'd say most consider it "okay".


Not after the most recent patch. Protoss is more or less pretty balanced. The largest imbalance was TvP and after the patch that arguably favors T now more than P.

I wouldn't argue to hard that they are a bit imbalanced still, but I would argue against them being anything more than that.

I should also add that my views on balance are semi-unique. To a lot of people balance is "Is there a counter? Did you make mistakes?" If the answer is yes, the thing in question is balanced. To me, the pertinent relationship is "Skill it takes to get to + use the item in question vs. Skill to counter it." If this relationship isn't equal, the object in question is imbalanced, IMO. And SC2 has many things like this. Like EMP vs. Protoss, or Mutalisks in general.


There are very few hard counters in SC2, it's one of the things I like about the game. However the question of "did you make mistakes" is an important one. None the less..

I don't disagree that all-ins are imbalanced at the Bronze/Silver and even Gold level, because they're very easy to execute and can be difficult to defend at that level since scouting and proper reaction isn't common since you need to know what to do.

I don't see how EMP vs Protoss or Mutas are examples of imbalance at lower levels BTW. I can see things like roach/bane all-ins or various sentry/immortal all-ins as examples of this on lower levels.

For example, most other RTSes have some sort of "repeat queue" feature when you're training units. SC2 doesn't, because your macro is something you're constantly supposed to be thinking of. You're supposed to be constantly selecting your buildings, training units, training SCVs. This just gets in the way of what I want to do: Build a cool base and go fight with my army.


I would agree, if SC1 wasn't that way at all. That's a pretty massive mechanic change in the game, and would have been met with nothing but massive up-roar from the SC community if they had done so.

It also just doesn't fit with the SC style. This has nothing to do with Blizzard focusing on making SC2 competitive as it does sticking to their roots IMHO.

Or for Zerg, Queens and their Spawn Larva mechanic. It's a dull, boring mechanic that I really think should just be able to be set to Auto-cast. Or outright removed, akin to the HotS campaign.


I see people say this a lot, and I'm always skeptical about how much zerg the person who says this actually plays. Now, I don't disagree that there probably could have been a better solution than the larva injects, but they're not nearly as big of a deal as many people make them out to be. After a small amount of practice it honestly just became second nature to me and I can inject 4-5 hatches in about a second (` = next base, all my queens are in one group. Select the group then ` v click over and over. Easy stuff)

Autocast can be one possible solution, but then what's the solution for chronoboosting for Protoss? Or dropping mules for Terran? That type of macro mechanic exists for all the races.

None of those mechanics impacts the fun-factor for me, although I easily can see it impacting it for users who want a basic RTS.


The rest of your post is well... meaningless to me. That's not meant to be offensive at all, just sounds like you're looking for SC2 to be a game that it never was going to be. It's fair criticism for your view, but doesn't mean much in the bigger picture.
#32EpicKingdom_Posted 4/21/2014 6:07:17 PM
They were great until WoW's evil took their souls.
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#33GynthaeresPosted 4/21/2014 6:47:23 PM
Worknofun370 posted...
Not after the most recent patch. Protoss is more or less pretty balanced. The largest imbalance was TvP and after the patch that arguably favors T now more than P.


I don't really care about professional play, and nor do I really play much anymore. I was just parroting what I've heard on /r/Starcraft. If people now think it's balanced, well, I can retract that statement.

I don't see how EMP vs Protoss or Mutas are examples of imbalance at lower levels BTW. I can see things like roach/bane all-ins or various sentry/immortal all-ins as examples of this on lower levels.


I would say Mutalisks are incredibly overpowered, at least per my definition of "overpowered", at most levels of play. The amount of effort it takes to use them is far, far outweighed by the effort it takes to counter them. If they go unscouted (as you might expect in lower levels), it's virtually game over when they come out.

I would agree, if SC1 wasn't that way at all. That's a pretty massive mechanic change in the game, and would have been met with nothing but massive up-roar from the SC community if they had done so.

It also just doesn't fit with the SC style. This has nothing to do with Blizzard focusing on making SC2 competitive as it does sticking to their roots IMHO.


Eh. In the past, Blizzard hasn't been afraid to update their mechanics and innovate in their games. But with SC2, suddenly they decide not to innovate, not to push boundaries, just to release an iterative sequel. It's disappointing to me that people are okay with that, even preferring it to potential innovation. And I think part of the reason they did that was to keep SC2 an e-sport, as SC1 inadvertently turned in to.

I see people say this a lot, and I'm always skeptical about how much zerg the person who says this actually plays.
Autocast can be one possible solution, but then what's the solution for chronoboosting for Protoss? Or dropping mules for Terran? That type of macro mechanic exists for all the races.


Chronoboost is an interesting decision. Do you want units faster? Probes faster? Upgrades faster? A high tech unit faster? You can pick what you want. You can't auto-cast that; you have to think about it.
MULEs are a semi-interesting decision. You can store them up and drop a bunch on a new expansion, or you can continually drop them on your main if you're planning to do some sort of all-in.
Spawn Larva? Except in certain circumstances (e.g. fearing an early rush, or planning to spread creep early), there's not much decision-making there.

The rest of your post is well... meaningless to me. That's not meant to be offensive at all, just sounds like you're looking for SC2 to be a game that it never was going to be.


That's true. I was hoping SC2 would be a proper Blizzard game. An innovative, incredible leap from its predecessors, just as (like I said before), WC2 was from WC1. SC1 was from WC2. WC3 was to SC1. But it wasn't. It's regressed the genre instead, and I find that a little depressing. I've lost some faith in Blizzard as a result (hence bringing it up in this topic).
I mean, I've played better RTSes than SC1 since that game came out. I've played better RTSes than WC3. So playing an updated SC1 wasn't that appealing to me, except for nostalgia's sake. Unfortunately it's about the only choice when it comes to RTS these days.

I also really hate the CG movies that Blizzard creates for SC2. I'd love to play a game with like, hundreds of marines and tanks trying to fight off thousands of Zerglings and a handful of massive ultralisks. But SC2 is... very gamey, very cartoony. I just find that disappointing.
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#34CELTEKKPosted 4/21/2014 6:49:41 PM
Hagan posted...
Gave them a second shot with Diablo 3, which in all honestly was the biggest let down I've ever experienced with any game ever,


pretty much. I lost all faith in blizzard after diablo 3.
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#35x_stevey_xPosted 4/21/2014 7:31:02 PM
i think their games are great/top notch.

i have 2 problems though...

- their games are rarely if ever on sale and never drop from full price
- their games are too easy.. although they DO give the option of harder content.. the hard stuff is at the end and you have to beat their games on the mind numbingly easy settings first
#36x_stevey_xPosted 4/21/2014 7:31:51 PM
UtterMoon posted...
I am a big fan...or..well at least I was at one point. I think that Blizzard should start actually doing stuff...maybe a new IP, and I think they should try to push boundaries...instead of sitting comfortably in the past.

And Titan...what the hell is it? And why did they stop talking about it....

Also Starcraft Ghost...

I mean its cool that they're updating WoW...finally...to a more acceptable level of visuals, but I don't understand how a company could do so very little with the massive amount of money they have...


umm hearthstone?
heroes of the storm?
#37Worknofun370Posted 4/25/2014 11:49:32 AM
Gynthaeres posted...
I would say Mutalisks are incredibly overpowered, at least per my definition of "overpowered", at most levels of play. The amount of effort it takes to use them is far, far outweighed by the effort it takes to counter them. If they go unscouted (as you might expect in lower levels), it's virtually game over when they come out.


I can not disagree with this more.

Mutas are not OP, they're actually pretty well balanced. To effectively use Mutas you need to have very good micro skills. On lower levels clump together 2/3 widow mines or a few archons and you can quickly take out a group of mutas with little effort/skill.

I do agree that tech switches can be powerful, and it's a strength for Zerg. But Mutas are very far from an instawin

Eh. In the past, Blizzard hasn't been afraid to update their mechanics and innovate in their games. But with SC2, suddenly they decide not to innovate, not to push boundaries, just to release an iterative sequel. It's disappointing to me that people are okay with that, even preferring it to potential innovation. And I think part of the reason they did that was to keep SC2 an e-sport, as SC1 inadvertently turned in to.


They changed mechanics around, they just didn't change the fundamental style of play, which I greatly appreciate.

I think they did it because they listened to fans of SC1. I will give blizzard nothing but credit for actually listening to what the actual fans of the game wants, rather than catering to casuals like so many devs currently do.

Chronoboost is an interesting decision. Do you want units faster? Probes faster? Upgrades faster? A high tech unit faster? You can pick what you want. You can't auto-cast that; you have to think about it.


It's pretty straight forward 9/10 times. Going tech? Chrono the tech, Not going tech? Chrono probes.

Doing some quick tech push like a stargate for an oracle? Chrono the oracle then chrono probes.

There really isn't much decision making there. I will agree there is more than larva injects.

MULEs are a semi-interesting decision. You can store them up and drop a bunch on a new expansion, or you can continually drop them on your main if you're planning to do some sort of all-in.


You should ALWAYS drop mules when you can until your mineral lines are saturated. Saving them up for a quick drop at an expansion is bad strategy early-mid game.

As for the rest, it's completely fair to dislike SC2 because it stayed very similar to SC1 or that it didn't implement mechanics to appeal to the more casual player. I truly have no issues with that and can see your point of view with ease. It's a fair critique to have for someone who wanted SC2 to be that type of game.

For myself, and many others, as I've mentioned I love that they've stuck to their roots of what SC1 was and didn't try to mess with the formula too much, and very very happy they didn't try to appeal to the casual player more (That's easily a top 5 complaint on this board about great games that end up dumbing themselves down for casuals)
#38r0ge00Posted 4/25/2014 12:02:56 PM(edited)
Hagan posted...
Blizzard was possibly the best developer ever, but then they decided to milk WoW, and a great MMO got boring right around when Cata was released. Gave them a second shot with Diablo 3, which in all honestly was the biggest let down I've ever experienced with any game ever, next to Perfect Dark Zero. Played the game for 2 weeks, never went back.


Pretty much this, except WotLK was pretty meh and I didn't even want to touch Diablo 3. They're just not the same Blizzard that I remember. I put more hours than I can count into Diablo, Diablo 2, SC, WC2, WC3, and WoW. I don't even touch their games anymore.

ShadowThaReaper posted...
and they left the SC2 custom games scene to rot for 3 years before doing anything about it.


That was something I really didn't like as well.
#39Sub TankPosted 4/25/2014 12:10:09 PM(edited)
Blizz peaked with the release of WC3. All downhill after that.
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#40Termin8rPosted 4/25/2014 12:11:59 PM
I think the way StarBow handles economy for terran is a much more balanced approach than the MULE. You get instead a "Calldown SCV" ability which instantly brings down a permanent SCV at the cost of 25 energy and 50 minerals, and with a cooldown so you don't try to spam them when in a pinch.
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