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"Used games hurt devs" What does Steam sales do?

#51AsucaHayashiPosted 4/30/2014 10:17:24 AM
arleas posted...
I think a lot of people HAVE stopped buying into it which is what prompts all these topics making steam users out to be cheapasses because they wait for a sale. How dare I try to save my money and get the most out of it as I can!

It goes both ways. If I had to spend $60 on every game then I'd probably have 1/10th the game library I have now, and all that money would go to one or two developers. That's gotta be good for the industry huh?


if they care so much about treating PC and console gamers as the same demographic, then i'll definitely do the same to them.

ie. not feel bad whatsoever in paying say $20 for a PC game when a $60 console game amounts to the same money in the hands of the publisher/dev after all the middlemen have been paid off.
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#52r0ge00Posted 4/30/2014 11:02:48 AM
Jedi454 posted...
Interesting, digital distribution has taken over PC as it is the way of the "future", something needs to be done about console digital distribution though, the prices are disgusting.


Prices are fine and sometimes even great. For instance, this week if you have PS+, you can get Tales Chronicles for $10. The game is 75% off and only about 2 months old. It's $20 without PS+, still a hell of a deal.

BilliePilgrim posted...
There's a big problem with that. Consoles are walled gardens where Sony/MS/Nintendo have complete control. Now they could avoid this by teaming up with companies like Amazon, GMG, Gamefly, etc to sell keys online, but I absolutely cannot imagine them inviting third party storefronts onto the consoles themselves. There's very little motive to do any of that, since the status quo has them holding all the cards. Why exactly should they sacrifice digital sales to Amazon? If Steam wanted to start pulling some serious jerk moves, devs could switch to a different DRM service/drop DRM entirely, and sell through Amazon.


Amazon already has a Playstation Digital Store that sells codes.
#53BilliePilgrimPosted 4/30/2014 8:40:14 PM
r0ge00 posted...
Amazon already has a Playstation Digital Store that sells codes.

Hmm, and apparently it's been that way since November, but it appears they've already pulled a couple of games while really only adding indie games. There's not much available, at all. I'm going to have to mostly stand by my statement until I see a commitment to bring more titles on board. As it stands, if you don't want ACIV, BF4, Ghosts, or Killzone, well you're juts kinda SOL.
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#54The cranky hermitPosted 4/30/2014 8:44:35 PM
I don't think so, used copies implies physical copies at the store. Much of the $60 someone spends doesn't go to the devs, only around less than half does and the rest to retailers, distributors, and the like. Taking that into account that retailers also have sales of their own and reduce prices the profit should be around the same for a $60 retail game in comparison to a digital copy on sale for $30.

But we're not comparing $60 retail to $30 digital. We're comparing $60 retail to $10 digital. Can you prove that less than $14 from a $60 retail sale goes to the developer?

You also seem to be forgetting that the digital sale also doesn't go 100% to the developer. In fact, you haven't really cut out any middlemen. You still need to pay marketing, most likely the publisher, and Valve gets a cut instead of the retailer.

It's not that cut and dry.

Uh, that's my whole point. I'm not trying to say anything is "cut and dry." I'm trying to say that the argument of "devs don't get money from used game sales" is erroneous - it is forgetting key facts, and is therefore unsound. In other words, it's not that cut and dry.
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#55TimePharaohPosted 4/30/2014 8:55:58 PM(edited)
The cranky hermit posted...
I don't think so, used copies implies physical copies at the store. Much of the $60 someone spends doesn't go to the devs, only around less than half does and the rest to retailers, distributors, and the like. Taking that into account that retailers also have sales of their own and reduce prices the profit should be around the same for a $60 retail game in comparison to a digital copy on sale for $30.

But we're not comparing $60 retail to $30 digital. We're comparing $60 retail to $10 digital. Can you prove that less than $14 from a $60 retail sale goes to the developer?

You also seem to be forgetting that the digital sale also doesn't go 100% to the developer. In fact, you haven't really cut out any middlemen. You still need to pay marketing, most likely the publisher, and Valve gets a cut instead of the retailer.

It's not that cut and dry.

Uh, that's my whole point. I'm not trying to say anything is "cut and dry." I'm trying to say that the argument of "devs don't get money from used game sales" is erroneous - it is forgetting key facts, and is therefore unsound. In other words, it's not that cut and dry.


Valve gets like 10-20%. Retailers sell for over 400% markup. Do the math.
#56xpiritflarePosted 4/30/2014 9:26:07 PM(edited)
The cranky hermit posted...
I don't think so, used copies implies physical copies at the store. Much of the $60 someone spends doesn't go to the devs, only around less than half does and the rest to retailers, distributors, and the like. Taking that into account that retailers also have sales of their own and reduce prices the profit should be around the same for a $60 retail game in comparison to a digital copy on sale for $30.

But we're not comparing $60 retail to $30 digital. We're comparing $60 retail to $10 digital. Can you prove that less than $14 from a $60 retail sale goes to the developer?

You also seem to be forgetting that the digital sale also doesn't go 100% to the developer. In fact, you haven't really cut out any middlemen. You still need to pay marketing, most likely the publisher, and Valve gets a cut instead of the retailer.

It's not that cut and dry.

Uh, that's my whole point. I'm not trying to say anything is "cut and dry." I'm trying to say that the argument of "devs don't get money from used game sales" is erroneous - it is forgetting key facts, and is therefore unsound. In other words, it's not that cut and dry.

Then use a more ambiguous example or just plain better one that makes it obvious what your point was. You made it sound like it would have gotten 2 sales regardless of price thus losing the developer/publisher money.

Edit: I get your point that if two people bought it new and then used, it would make more money than if those two people bought it at a much deeper discount. But, my point still stands and that is that there wouldn't be two people that buy that game at the discount.
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#57The cranky hermitPosted 4/30/2014 9:57:19 PM
Valve gets like 10-20%. Retailers sell for over 400% markup. Do the math.

Ok. 400% markup means they charge 500% of the wholesale price (if this sounds wrong, remember that 30% markup means they charge 130% of the wholesale price - not 30% of the wholesale price). So a $60 game is $12 wholesale. Somehow, I don't think you're correct here.

Then use a more ambiguous example or just plain better one that makes it obvious what your point was. You made it sound like it would have gotten 2 sales regardless of price thus losing the developer/publisher money.

I don't see what the problem here is. We are looking at a hypothetical person who buys a game used. This implies another hypothetical person who bought the game new. My example shows that two digital sales made the dev less money from these two hypothetical people than the retail sales did. I wasn't making a point about the big picture any more than I was responding to a point about the big picture.
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#58VanderZooPosted 4/30/2014 10:44:18 PM
Fenriswolf posted...
Steam sales devalue games. When I spent $60 on a boxed PC game back in the day, I did research, respected my purchase and played the hell of it. When you're casually spending less than $5 on impulse purchases and leave them in your back catalog, not only you're disrespecting yourself, you're also treating PC developers like beggars. At least before Steam PC gaming actually had exclusives.


I agree. Last stat I saw said that 37% of purchased Steam games are completely untouched. People just buy on impluse and then forget about them. I've done it.

It's why I've completely stopped buying Steam games on sale. I just have too many games in my list that I've never played, and probably never will, I just couldn't pass up on a good deal.

My view now is that I play and finish every game I buy, and I buy nothing else till I've done that. No back logs.
#59DarkZV2BetaPosted 4/30/2014 10:55:22 PM
AsucaHayashi posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
AsucaHayashi posted...
godplaysSNES posted...
It takes a long time for popular games to get big discounts. Take Skyrim for example.


this annoys me... it's a fact they get more per unit sold on PC and yet they treat PC in the same league as console in order to maximize profits usually with a starting price of $60(just because and definitely not out of necessity) with rare discounts that only go up to a certain point.

something i like to call too big and arrogant for their own good.


So stop buying into it.

"How dare a company try to make as much money as possible, as they are legally obligated to do! They should make less money to suit MY interests!"


yes, how dare they actually when there's no grounds for it whatsoever other than to create the illusion of pricing parity between PC and console while "still" treating PC gamers as 2nd rate customers(eg. ubisoft launcching their games later etc.).

also, i don't buy into it(for the most part... bought D3 because my friends wanted to get in on it asap) but there are millions out there that do which just enforces the practice.


Actually, it's because GameStop and other retail outlets will give them second rate shelving in shops or stop carrying them earlier or push harder for used copies of a particular game if they don't keep their digital prices high.
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#60LaManoNeraIIPosted 5/1/2014 12:01:41 AM
All these indie games are over priced. It's why they sell when they're on sale.

While sales are a good thing at times, it's still vitally important to build value for your brand. Ideally you want your game selling on its merits, even years after release. Not only selling when you slash the price by 70%
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