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plugging ethernet into surge protector?

#11LordSeiferPosted 6/10/2014 6:49:14 PM
why are you worried about running network through a surge suppressor.
its a digital signal, so nothing is going to happen to it, should be more worried about the coax feeding your modem if loss was the concern.


pretty much pointless though if you are just running ethernet from the modem to the router

if you are using a POE outdoor antenna then maybe it makes some sense
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^ this
#12westom1Posted 6/11/2014 6:11:24 AM
More useful and less expensive is a protector located at the serice entrance. Phone, cable, and satellite dish should already have that protection installed for free. But only a homeowner is responsible for providing that superior solution on AC electric.

A surge that does not enter a house will not appear on Ethernet. Best protection is always about any conductor that enters the building. If that conductor is properly earthed (directly or via a protector), then no surge is inside and no surge is on any Ethernet wire.

If that 'whole house' solution does not exist, then an adjacent protector can compromise existing protection inside the appliance.
#13lost_withinPosted 6/11/2014 6:22:37 AM
Generally networks don't carry the surge like land lines use too...I don't know if that is because it stops at the modem or the router and blows them up stopping the surge where as a 56k modem is hooked directly up to the incoming line with nothing between it...

This would be something interesting to investigate...
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"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity."
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#14SinisterSlayPosted 6/11/2014 6:28:38 AM
lost_within posted...
Generally networks don't carry the surge like land lines use too...I don't know if that is because it stops at the modem or the router and blows them up stopping the surge where as a 56k modem is hooked directly up to the incoming line with nothing between it...

This would be something interesting to investigate...


A lightning strike on a phone line is passed through the modem and router. But usually stops there because one of the two usually has a ground on the plug.
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He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence
#15adramelk44(Topic Creator)Posted 6/11/2014 11:13:34 AM(edited)
westom1 posted...
Protectors that actually claim protection from destructive surges always have a dedicated wire for the low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth. That protector does not have it. It only claims to protect from a type of surge already made irrelevant by protection inside NICs.

Ethernet protection is typically good for up to 2000 volts. Your concern is a rare and destructive surge that may overwhelm that existing protection. That surge protector is a completely different device that, unfortunately, has a same name.

An example of an ethernet protector is:
http://www.ditekcorp.com/product-details.asp?ProdKey=59
Notice an earth ground connection necessary to have protection. The installation guide also recommends it must be a single point earth ground. As required by any other effective protector.


So in reference to that "proper" ethernet protector... would it be installed like this? I found this youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC8fR9ARbL8

Also in your other post when you say "If that 'whole house' solution does not exist, then an adjacent protector can compromise existing protection inside the appliance." do you mean that in the end one of these proper ethernet protectors isn't worth it since it would impair the inherent protection that is built into the NIC card itself?
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#16westom1Posted 6/12/2014 5:34:41 AM
That protector in the You Tube video has no earth ground. Protectors do not do protection. Protectors are effective when connected low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth ground.

Some previous sentences defined this:
A surge that does not enter a house will not appear on Ethernet. Best protection is always about any conductor that enters the building. If that conductor is properly earthed (directly or via a protector), then no surge is inside and no surge is on any Ethernet wire.

What makes that protector effective was defined in the first post:
Notice an earth ground connection necessary to have protection. The installation guide also recommends it must be a single point earth ground. As required by any other effective protector.

Apparently you are assuming a protector will somehow block or absorb a surge. No protector can do that. A surge is a constant current. That means voltage will increase as necessary and blow through anything that might stop it. Voltage will increase as necessary so that a constant current will flow.

Never block a surge. That myth sells obscenely overprices and ineffective protectors. Always connect it harmlessly to earth. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
#17SinisterSlayPosted 6/12/2014 5:48:21 AM
westom1 posted...


Never block a surge. That myth sells obscenely overprices and ineffective protectors. Always connect it harmlessly to earth. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.


This also applies to those power bar surge protectors. Those don't do anything. Or at least, the cheap ones don't do anything.
I tested them out on a gas generator with a broken voltage regulator. It had already exploded the inverter in the mobile home.
I strung 4 of those cheap surge protectors together, then at the end I put one of those night lights.
I plugged it into the generator and fired it up.
All 4 power bars popped and smoked and the plastic around the bulb melted and the bulb burned out instantly.
You can find similar tests on youtube, and even lightning strikes.

The only thing I know that does work for preventing and stopping surges are UPSs.

This is also the reason nearly everyone on this board will recommend a high quality power supply for a PC. A high quality unit will be designed to sacrifice itself to save the system in the event of a major surge.
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He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence
#18westom1Posted 6/12/2014 11:49:45 AM
> A high quality unit will be designed to sacrifice itself to save the system in the event
> of a major surge.

A surge is a current source. That means a current incoming to the PSU is simultaneously outgoing on the other side. So, if a PSU sacrifices itself, that means a surge was both incoming to and outgoing from (into electronics). Where is the protection?

Sacrificial protection is a popular urban myth. A power strip protector is so grossly undersized as to even fail on surges too tiny to damage an appliance (or its power supply). If grossly undersized, a majority then recommend it and buy more. Reality: the PSU protected that appliance from a tiny surge. A grossly undersized protector failed to promote sales.

How do we know? Numbers. Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules? How many joules does that power strip protector claim to absorb? Hundreds? IOW near zero. Just enough above zero to claim 100% protection in advertising. And just enough to fail on surges too tiny to damage other appliances.

View numbers for a UPS. Typically even closer to zero. A UPS connects AC power directly to a computer or game when not in battery backup mode. Directly as if connected by a wire. A surge also would be connected directly.

Since games are so robust, then dirtiest power (ie from a UPS) is irrelevant. For example, a UPS in battery backup mode may be harmful to small motors. That 'dirty' power is ideal due to electronics’ existing protection.

More numbers. This 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts in battery backup mode. Since games and computers are so robust, this 'dirtiest' power is ideal and not harmful. Because electronics must already be that robust.

Sacrificial protection is hooey. Concern is for a rare and destructive surge (maybe once every seven years) that can overwhelm that protection. And also harm other appliances (ie refrigerator, dimmer switches, air conditioner, and recharging mobile phones). That protection is installed at the service entrance. With a critically important low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth ground. Then surges are not sacrificing appliances. Then power strips are not potential house fires. Fire is another risk when protectors are near zero and not protection by service entrance protection.

Best protection for ethernet is no surge inside the building.
#19adramelk44(Topic Creator)Posted 6/12/2014 2:52:13 PM
Wow, interesting stuff. I suppose I got the impression that the ethernet protector in the youtube video was grounded since it had a wire attached to a screw that was screwed into a random part of the PC case. (kind of like those bracelets computer repair techs wear that have a wire attached to the PC case to ground themself... seen here: http://www.fixallpcs.com/category/scanners/)
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#20westom1Posted 6/13/2014 5:21:44 AM
All grounds are different. The earth ground is different from a computer's motherboard ground, is different from its chassis ground, is different than a floating ground inside a TV, is different from the ground beneath shoes that is relevant for ESD, and is different from safety ground in the wall receptacle. Some are interconnected and still different.

A relevant term is impedance. Due to impedance (and other factors), electricity is always different at both ends of any wire. Meaning the many grounds are electrically different.

ESD protection is about a ground beneath the shoe. A discharge does from the body, through an arm, out through electronics, maybe down table legs, to charges beneath the feet. Note the so many electrical conductors that some consider nsulators. Neither earth nor motherboard ground are in that path.

Surge protection is about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. That is not chassis ground, not ground beneath shoes nor ground in a wall receptacle. Surge protection is about a completely different ground - earth ground. Impedance is also why the connection from protector to earth ground must be low (ie 'less than 10 feet', no sharp wire bends, no splices, not inside metallic conduit, etc). Surge protection is about the ground that will harmlessly dissipate hundreds of thousands of joules.