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MOBAs

#1VeryDarkSoulPosted 6/12/2014 12:43:36 PM
Am I alone as a hardcore RTS player for 1 1/2 decades thinking MOBA's are nothing but RTS games for casuals? There's no nailbiting moments where you need to control 100 units at the same time, in multiple places--while also managing/defending your base, building more units, defense structures, setting control groups and unit waypoints, etc etc. In a MOBA you control your single character while stupid AI used to grind xp for your hero just run towards each other.
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#2GunmaN1905Posted 6/12/2014 12:50:30 PM
It may look like that, but believe me it's not.
I've got like close to 2k hours in wc3 dota+dota2 and I still can improve a lot. I'll agree that dota (I won't talk about lol/hon since I never played them) might look easier because you have good micro skills, but there is huge amount (literally huge) of small things that make the difference.
AI runs in yes, but there's so much stuff you can do to control those waves that I won't even bother putting it there. It's all about PvP in dota and teamwork. If the enemy team is coordinated and yours isn't, there's a very low chance that you will win if both teams are on the same skill level.
I won't even try explaining stuff in details because that would take me like 5 hours for just the basics.

Bottom line:
I think that both genres are kinda easy to play because you start against AI or players at your skill level, other beginners, but if you really want to become good it's really, really hard. If you ask me, for someone that has never played any moba games, it would take at least 500 hours in game to become decent player and at least 1k hours to become remotely good. Don't ask why, if you ever start playing you'll see.
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#3r0ge00Posted 6/12/2014 12:50:38 PM
MOBAs aren't RTS games, despite what certain people will try to tell you. They're two completely separate genres with very little overlap.
#4KillerTrufflePosted 6/12/2014 1:15:28 PM
I play tons of RTS too - it's long been my favorite genre. I've still enjoyed MOBAs too, although I tend to play solo vs. AI most of the time since I really hate the communities.

MOBAs are more about efficient planning and micromanagement of one to a small handful of units, rather than managing hundreds or thousands of units. Just because the scale is different doesn't make it any less challenging... And honestly, as an RTS player, it felt fairly natural to move into MOBAs. Still had a good bit of learning curve with DOTA 2, but it's my most-played game now.
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"How do I get rid of a Trojan Horse?" -Sailor_Kakashi
"Leave it outside the gates of Troy overnight." -Davel23
#5ebj767Posted 6/12/2014 1:16:35 PM
MOBAs are less forgiving, one screw up throws your game.
#6Worknofun370Posted 6/12/2014 1:19:08 PM
VeryDarkSoul posted...
Am I alone as a hardcore RTS player for 1 1/2 decades thinking MOBA's are nothing but RTS games for casuals?


I've only played MOBA's against AI and by no means am a fan of the genre... but yeah you're going to be pretty alone based on that opinion. It's pretty inaccurate.

ebj767 posted...
MOBAs are less forgiving, one screw up throws your game.


Same in a RTS, one screw up and it's GG.
#7KillerTrufflePosted 6/12/2014 1:19:32 PM
ebj767 posted...
MOBAs are less forgiving, one screw up throws your game.


This can often be true. Accidentally right-click the wrong thing to buy and don't catch it fast enough to resell at full value, and you're done. Upgrade the wrong skill for your plan when you level up, and you're done. Get the lane balance off before you can push the enemy tower and you're done. Wait too long to move, attack the wrong thing (i.e. tower instead of creep), etc., and big problems. LOTS of ways to screw up in a MOBA. heh
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"How do I get rid of a Trojan Horse?" -Sailor_Kakashi
"Leave it outside the gates of Troy overnight." -Davel23
#8Worknofun370Posted 6/12/2014 1:37:49 PM
KillerTruffle posted...
This can often be true. Accidentally right-click the wrong thing to buy and don't catch it fast enough to resell at full value, and you're done. Upgrade the wrong skill for your plan when you level up, and you're done. Get the lane balance off before you can push the enemy tower and you're done. Wait too long to move, attack the wrong thing (i.e. tower instead of creep), etc., and big problems. LOTS of ways to screw up in a MOBA. heh


I'm failing to see how this is different from a RTS. Other than you don't have teammates yelling at you about screwing up.

Not saying it's untrue, I openly admit that I don't really play MOBAs so it's very easily far more difficult to recover from a mistake than in an RTS. But... IDK, very very easy to make mistakes in an RTS will bury you just like your MOBA Examples.
#9yarsPosted 6/12/2014 1:40:16 PM
it is much more difficult to be good at a decent rts than a moba. not that something like dota 2 doesn't require skill. it does. but not nearly on the same levels as something like starcraft 2.
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#10Worknofun370Posted 6/12/2014 1:42:42 PM
yars posted...
it is much more difficult to be good at a decent rts than a moba. not that something like dota 2 doesn't require skill. it does. but not nearly on the same levels as something like starcraft 2.


They require different skill sets. But I wouldn't necessary say that it doesn't require nearly the same levels. The competitive scene of mobas seems to disagree with that thought as well.