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MOBAs

#11yarsPosted 6/12/2014 1:45:25 PM
The competitive scene of mobas seems to disagree with that thought as well.


in what way?
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#12AsucaHayashiPosted 6/12/2014 1:46:38 PM
RTS probably demands much more of you than moba since is a team game and all.

sure, you can screw up but your team can do so well that they can bring you back into the game whereas you alone are responsible for everything that goes wrong or right in RTS... when it's 1v1 anyway.
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#13r0ge00Posted 6/12/2014 1:47:03 PM
Worknofun370 posted...
Other than you don't have teammates yelling at you about screwing up.


Global mute is a wonderful thing.
#14Worknofun370Posted 6/12/2014 1:50:36 PM
yars posted...
The competitive scene of mobas seems to disagree with that thought as well.


in what way?


Well, I don't follow it super close so I could be completely wrong here. But my understanding is the "best players" have mostly been the "best players" in mobas, they just change teams a crap ton. If the skill cap was lower you'd more than likely see a lot more fluctuation at the highest skill level since it is easier to reach than in SC2.

They're different skill sets for sure, but I don't really see any evidence to support the claim that the skill level of MOBAs is "nowhere near the level" of SC2. If you can provide that i'd easily change my mind as I am much much more of an RTS fanboy than a MOBA :)
#15_GRIM_FANDANGO_Posted 6/12/2014 1:54:11 PM
I am actually not sure. Once you get into them MOBA's are deceptively complicated. But yeah, I do agree that they are a lot more accessible in a way. Since there are only a limited number of skills to use, and units to control.

Personally, even though MOBA's came from RTS and both share a hotkey playstyle with a top-down view, I think of them as just two separate genres. That is just because to me, playing and RTS feels nothing like playing a MOBA, and I like both.
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#16KillerTrufflePosted 6/12/2014 1:59:29 PM
Worknofun370 posted...
KillerTruffle posted...
This can often be true. Accidentally right-click the wrong thing to buy and don't catch it fast enough to resell at full value, and you're done. Upgrade the wrong skill for your plan when you level up, and you're done. Get the lane balance off before you can push the enemy tower and you're done. Wait too long to move, attack the wrong thing (i.e. tower instead of creep), etc., and big problems. LOTS of ways to screw up in a MOBA. heh


I'm failing to see how this is different from a RTS. Other than you don't have teammates yelling at you about screwing up.

Not saying it's untrue, I openly admit that I don't really play MOBAs so it's very easily far more difficult to recover from a mistake than in an RTS. But... IDK, very very easy to make mistakes in an RTS will bury you just like your MOBA Examples.


Didn't say it was (your post wasn't up when I was typing mine).
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#17yarsPosted 6/12/2014 2:02:49 PM
Well, I don't follow it super close so I could be completely wrong here. But my understanding is the "best players" have mostly been the "best players" in mobas, they just change teams a crap ton. If the skill cap was lower you'd more than likely see a lot more fluctuation at the highest skill level since it is easier to reach than in SC2.


the skill cap is lower. but not so low that some kid who plays dota 2 after school is going to be able to consistently beat professional teams who play for 10+ hours a day.

They're different skill sets for sure, but I don't really see any evidence to support the claim that the skill level of MOBAs is "nowhere near the level" of SC2. If you can provide that i'd easily change my mind as I am much much more of an RTS fanboy than a MOBA :)


just look at the games and is required to play well. in dota 2, to be decent at the game, you only ever need to learn to control a single unit at a time. there are more complicated heroes and items that require you control more than one unit, but you could be a pro and never use one of those heroes or items. so with that one unit you need to know when to attack, when to run, when to use your abilities, when to scout, when to use your items, when to push, when to gank, and any other tactics that you could employ with that unit.

in starcraft 2, with few exceptions, you need to know how to do all that, except with dozens of units at once. no individual unit in starcraft is likely to have as many unique abilities as one hero in dota 2. but any sizeable and diverse army is going to have more unique abilties spread amongst dozens of units all of which need to ideally be used in a battle at the right time.

and while a dota 2 player needs to control his single unit all the time, while keeping an eye on the map, a starcraft 2 player needs to control his dozens of units all the time, while keeping an eye on the map, while scouting, while building his base, while creating expansion bases, while building more units, and while upgrading existing units.

an rts basically takes everything a moba player needs to do, multiplies it by a few dozen, and requires that he has to do each task consecutively, whereas a moba player only really needs to focus on one task at a time.

i honestly don't know how a person could be at all familiar with both genres and not see that the rts genre has a much higher skill cap than mobas.
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#18Worknofun370Posted 6/12/2014 2:03:08 PM
KillerTruffle posted...
Didn't say it was (your post wasn't up when I was typing mine).


Saying "This is often true" when the claim was "MOBAs are less forgiving [then an RTS]" is kinda saying that. :)
#19VeryDarkSoul(Topic Creator)Posted 6/12/2014 2:06:50 PM
When I think of competitive MOBA's I think of competitive Super Smash Bros. Just because some people take it too seriously doesn't change the nature of the game. It's a very basic form of RTS that, IMO, requires much less thinking. Yes obviously every tiny little event in a MOBA is going to matter a lot more than a single unit in a RTS because you only get that one character to play with during the whole round, however an RTS uses a lot more thought processes.
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#20yarsPosted 6/12/2014 2:07:34 PM
mobas are also not less forgiving than an rts. in starcraft 2 you can lose the game in ten minutes if you make a single build error and aren't effectively prepared for the rush.

if in dota 2 you make an error and give the other team first blood in the first 10 minutes, the game is hardly over.
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My whole life has been a miserable pig filled ordeal because of you.