This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

MOBAs

#31yarsPosted 6/12/2014 1:26:05 PM
So I should listen to someone who spends a lot of time playing RTS to tell me the skill level needed to play a MOBA?


no, you should listen to well reasoned arguments. don't appeal to authority for your views.

To make the claims you're making you need to be a high level MOBA and RTS player. Are you a high level MOBA player? Do you even play MOBAs?


i've played warcraft 2, starcraft, warcraft 3, and starcraft 2 for years. i've also put over 1500 hours into dota 2. i gave up on starcraft 2 because having to manage so much at once ends up being more stressful than fun. dota 2 is much more relaxing by comparison.
---
My whole life has been a miserable pig filled ordeal because of you.
#32Worknofun370Posted 6/12/2014 1:32:17 PM(edited)
yars posted...
no, you should listen to well reasoned arguments. don't appeal to authority for your views.


I'm easily convinced by well reasoned arguments. An argument comparing MOBAs to SC2 while completely ignoring any type of teamwork needed in the MOBA is not a well reasoned argument.

EDIT: Also, appealing to authority for a view on something you openly admit you're ignorant about isn't a bad thing.

yars posted...
i've played warcraft 2, starcraft, warcraft 3, and starcraft 2 for years. i've also put over 1500 hours into dota 2. i gave up on starcraft 2 because having to manage so much at once ends up being more stressful than fun. dota 2 is much more relaxing by comparison.


What league did you get to in SC2? Steam account to verify the 1500 hours in dota2?
#33KillerTrufflePosted 6/12/2014 1:36:05 PM
@yars...

Multitasking is indeed only one element of skill. It is actually pretty rare to see the detailed level of coordination required for MOBA in RTS. Yes, coordination does happen, and multitasking is required, but MOBAs require greater micromanagement than RTS - it's a lot more than just managing your abilities. Buying the right item at just the right time, planning your item purchases in light of future upgrades, managing how you'll GET your purchases (do you leave the lane to go buy, or send your team's only courier to take it to you?)... Balancing the lane just right to allow you to rapidly level up and maximize your last hits - preferably while denying your enemy's ability to do the same - is also a big part of it. There is a ton of detail and coordination involved in MOBAs.

I would also argue that your reasoning for discounting MOBAs is flawed - "just because the people who spend their time playing the game say so, it's not true because they want to sound like they're good." First, the simple fact that there IS such a huge spread in skill says that skill is required for MOBAs. If it was random, then random people would win, rather than ending up with people known to be excellent at the game. Second, who would you claim might have any knowledge sufficient to have any sort of opinion on the skill level required if *not* those who play it a lot?
---
"How do I get rid of a Trojan Horse?" -Sailor_Kakashi
"Leave it outside the gates of Troy overnight." -Davel23
#34yarsPosted 6/12/2014 1:37:38 PM
I'm easily convinced by well reasoned arguments. An argument comparing MOBAs to SC2 while completely ignoring any type of teamwork needed in the MOBA is not a well reasoned argument.


but teamwork doesn't add additional difficulty. the entire reason we have teams for anything is because dividing work up amongst a group makings things EASIER for each individual in that group. yes, a good team requires practice, communication, and trust, but it doesn't actually require more skill on the part of the individual, but less. if i know it's joes job to ward, i don't have to worry about that this game. that's one less challenge for me.

EDIT: Also, appealing to authority for a view on something you openly admit you're ignorant about isn't a bad thing.


it is when multiple authorities disagree.

What league did you get to in SC2? Steam account to verify the 1500 hours in dota2?


i got into sc2 whenever it was release. i bought it right around launch. and no, i'm not giving you my steam account info.
---
My whole life has been a miserable pig filled ordeal because of you.
#35VeryDarkSoul(Topic Creator)Posted 6/12/2014 1:39:33 PM(edited)
KillerTruffle posted...
@yars...

Multitasking is indeed only one element of skill. It is actually pretty rare to see the detailed level of coordination required for MOBA in RTS. Yes, coordination does happen, and multitasking is required, but MOBAs require greater micromanagement than RTS - it's a lot more than just managing your abilities. Buying the right item at just the right time, planning your item purchases in light of future upgrades, managing how you'll GET your purchases (do you leave the lane to go buy, or send your team's only courier to take it to you?)... Balancing the lane just right to allow you to rapidly level up and maximize your last hits - preferably while denying your enemy's ability to do the same - is also a big part of it. There is a ton of detail and coordination involved in MOBAs.

I would also argue that your reasoning for discounting MOBAs is flawed - "just because the people who spend their time playing the game say so, it's not true because they want to sound like they're good." First, the simple fact that there IS such a huge spread in skill says that skill is required for MOBAs. If it was random, then random people would win, rather than ending up with people known to be excellent at the game. Second, who would you claim might have any knowledge sufficient to have any sort of opinion on the skill level required if *not* those who play it a lot?


I think it's a bit of a misnomer to say MOBA's require better micro. Obviously it does, because when you only have a single unit to work with, all you're left with is Microing.


---
Ron Paul 2012
#36yarsPosted 6/12/2014 1:40:31 PM
but MOBAs require greater micromanagement than RTS


no, they absolutely do not.
---
My whole life has been a miserable pig filled ordeal because of you.
#37Worknofun370Posted 6/12/2014 1:40:49 PM
yars posted...
but teamwork doesn't add additional difficulty.


"Well reasoned argument" You make me laugh.

yars posted...
i got into sc2 whenever it was release. i bought it right around launch.


I've never in my life had a SC2 player respond this way when I ask the question "What league did you get to in SC2"

Hint: I'm not asking when you started playing the game.

yars posted...
no, i'm not giving you my steam account info.


Shocking! Never saw that one coming when the 1200 hour DOTA2 claim was made.
#38yarsPosted 6/12/2014 1:43:50 PM
Shocking! Never saw that one coming when the 1200 hour DOTA2 claim was made.


were i lying, do you understand how easy it would be for me to find some 1500 hour dota account on dotabuff to link you to?
---
My whole life has been a miserable pig filled ordeal because of you.
#39Worknofun370Posted 6/12/2014 1:45:47 PM
yars posted...
Shocking! Never saw that one coming when the 1200 hour DOTA2 claim was made.


were i lying, do you understand how easy it would be for me to find some 1500 hour dota account on dotabuff to link you to?


I don't doubt that crossed your mind.

But yes, I absolutely think you're lying your ass off for the record.
#40pitt12177Posted 6/12/2014 1:46:00 PM
RTS > MOBA

Stop arguing, moba folks. It's not worth it. A semi-pro RTS player SMASHES the best MOBA player.