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Why esports will never be considered sports.

#91Worknofun370Posted 7/15/2014 9:00:55 AM
libertango posted...
Would you like to point out a fault in any of the assumptions?


They're wrong would be a good starting point.
#92libertangoPosted 7/15/2014 9:03:19 AM
Can you specifically address what is wrong about them?
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My goal now is to play a lot more Doom. I feel I haven't played enough Doom. - Bobby Fischer
Favorite released games of 2014: Tower of Guns, Titanfall
#93Worknofun370Posted 7/15/2014 9:14:16 AM(edited)
libertango posted...
Can you specifically address what is wrong about them?


They're not accurate to my position, hence being assumptions.

If you want to make assumptions about a position I haven't made known, then make assumptions. If you want me to then explain how you're assumptions are wrong, sorry slugger... not about to happen.

Moral of the story: Don't make assumptions.
#94libertangoPosted 7/15/2014 9:30:52 AM(edited)
I think you are ignoring the role that assumptions have in debate, philosophy, science, linguistics, etc. No progress can be made without them. We must make assumptions in a discussion, and it is ideal to state our assumptions so any misunderstandings can be clarified.

When I try to clarify your views, I must suggest my understanding of them. Otherwise, we might be arguing over something that we don't even disagree with.

Here is my understanding of your argument.

1. Sports "are" a certain thing, regardless of what we think they are.

Basis for this assumption: You said "It doesn't matter what you refer to things as though. Literally makes zero difference to what they actually are."

Is my understanding correct? If not, what did you mean, instead?

2. The definition of sports is as it says in the dictionary. (if it does not say there is a certain minimum level of physical exertion, then there is no minimum level). This definition of sports is agreed upon.

Basis for this assumption: You said "Just curious, where in that definition does it say anything about needing a certain minimum level of physical exertion? Since it doesn't say that anywhere, why are you trying to impose a minimum level?"

Is my understanding correct? If not, what did you mean, instead?

3. We can change definitions. (Society as a whole does this). Definitions change over time.

Basis for this assumption: You said "Hey, if you don't like the definition.. push to get it changed. But just because you don't like the definition doesn't in-turn invalidate it. The great thing about definitions is they can and do change over time as the use of the term changes. (See... ugh, literally)."

Is my understanding correct? If not, what did you mean, instead?

4. There is no definite interpretation of the definitions. You can interpret the definitions differently.

Basis for this assumption: You said "While I disagree with the competitive portion of this. Hey.. more power to you if you want to make that argument. Welcome to the wonderful world of semantics."

Is my understanding correct? If not, what did you mean, instead?

I now prompt you to correct or accept my understanding.
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My goal now is to play a lot more Doom. I feel I haven't played enough Doom. - Bobby Fischer
Favorite released games of 2014: Tower of Guns, Titanfall
#95Worknofun370Posted 7/15/2014 9:42:51 AM(edited)
libertango posted...
I think you are ignoring the role that assumptions have in debate, philosophy, science, linguistics, etc. No progress can be made without them.


In philosophy and science yes (but not really in the manner you're doing it) in debate? I disagree. Assuming what your opponent means will quickly lose the debate if you're incorrect.

I'll go through your assumptions now since you took the time to break things down. I wasn't about to put in any effort when you werent.

1.) Incorrect, and correct. I was talking to you with that response. It does not matter what you personally think golf or racing or eSports is. There was never a "we" there. But you are also correct that yes, I feel that a sport is a certain thing based on the current definitions. I have not (nor will I) express what I feel that is, because it doesn't really matter.

2.) Incorrect. I was simply asking a question why someone was trying to add something to the definition. You assumed I was going further.

3.) Correct, definitions can and do change over time.

4.) Incorrect. The fact that I decided not to engage with you on a semantics argument about if using the subway is a sport has no baring on what my position actually is on the topic of definition interpretation.
#96libertangoPosted 7/15/2014 10:14:41 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#97libertangoPosted 7/15/2014 10:15:42 AM
OK, so what I know of your argument so far is, "a sport is a certain thing based on the current definitions", and "the definition changes over time".

You say that you won't express what you "feel" it is. Since you say that you "feel" it is a certain way, that leads leads me to believe that you aren't sure exactly what it is? Is that correct?

To clarify, where does the current definition come from? Must it be shared by a certain percent of the population? Does it exist outside of human opinion?

Let's take chess as an example. Let's say that the majority of the world population do not consider it to be a sport. Let's say that according to Dictionary X, Chess is not a Sport. Let's say that according to Sports Organization Y, Chess is a sport.
Where does the current definition lie?
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My goal now is to play a lot more Doom. I feel I haven't played enough Doom. - Bobby Fischer
Favorite released games of 2014: Tower of Guns, Titanfall
#98Worknofun370Posted 7/15/2014 10:18:42 AM
libertango posted...
OK, so, basically, all I know of your argument is: "a sport is a certain thing based on the current definitions", and "the definition changes over time".


The only argument i've actually made is it doesn't matter what you think it is. If I made any others it was more or less unintentional.

You kept assuming I was trying to make different arguments for whatever reason when I never was. Rather than taking what I was saying at face value you kept looking for more.

libertango posted...
You say that you won't express what you "feel" it is. Since you say that you "feel" it is a certain way, that leads leads me to believe that you aren't sure exactly what it is?


Nope. It simply doesn't matter what I think it is.
#99libertangoPosted 7/15/2014 10:20:05 AM
Worknofun370 posted...
libertango posted...
OK, so, basically, all I know of your argument is: "a sport is a certain thing based on the current definitions", and "the definition changes over time".


The only argument i've actually made is it doesn't matter what you think it is. If I made any others it was more or less unintentional.

You kept assuming I was trying to make different arguments for whatever reason when I never was. Rather than taking what I was saying at face value you kept looking for more.

libertango posted...
You say that you won't express what you "feel" it is. Since you say that you "feel" it is a certain way, that leads leads me to believe that you aren't sure exactly what it is?


Nope. It simply doesn't matter what I think it is.


Does it matter what anybody thinks it is?
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My goal now is to play a lot more Doom. I feel I haven't played enough Doom. - Bobby Fischer
Favorite released games of 2014: Tower of Guns, Titanfall
#100Worknofun370Posted 7/15/2014 10:20:54 AM
libertango posted...
Does it matter what anybody thinks it is?


Any individual person? Not really, no.