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The problem with open world Bethesda games is that they allow difficulty changes

#51NingishzidaPosted 7/16/2014 6:23:44 PM
ChromaticAngel posted...
funny because Oblivion is actually worse than Skyrim.


Enemies in Skyrim aren't worth swinging at beyond player lvl20. Skyrim has a player lvlcap of 81 and "infinitely" more with Legendary, yet doesn't scale most enemies to even 50, and only a few generics to 60. Oblivion at least has the potential to remain a challenge into higher lvls.

Mod-wise, Oblivion has OOO + MMM. Oblivion has FCOM. Oblivion has Deadly Reflex and Unnecessary Violence. Oblivion has Nehrim. Skyrim has nothing close to that, modders are hamstrung by even a dumbed-down CK.
#52NingishzidaPosted 7/16/2014 6:29:59 PM
DV8ingSources posted...
Ningishzida posted...
I'd just play Morrowind or even Oblivion. Skyrim isn't worth playing, modded or not.


Seriously give requiem a try. It's really not terrible.
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/19281/?

The magic, crafting, stamina system, stealth and area based scaling along with the perks in general being rebalanced, make for a decently rewarding experience. Dying from 1 to 2 long range archery shots sucks at first but you learn to be prepared and eventually progress to the point you laugh at those early archers.


lol Requiem, don't mistake tedium for difficulty. I don't mean to insult those who made Requiem, but they're RPG fundamentalists. You wouldn't believe the lengths they went to in order to add (artificial) difficulty (ie, tedium) to the game.

Here's one example: heavy armor. You put on your first set and you can barely move, you are now A SLOTH. Pick up a single potion in addition? You're now an IMMOVABLE STATUE. No running for you, and sprinting? Don't make me laugh. The exhaustion mechanic they implemented is pure insanity.

You completed your arduous long WALK to Riverwood? Don't expect to buy anything. You see, these simple townsfolk are PRICE GOUGING PROFITEERS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF DRAGONS CAUSING STOCK SHORTAGES. Want to steal something, then? Go for it, if you can unlock the MASTER LEVEL LOCK that the SIMPLE shopkeeper has installed to ward everyone but thief grandmasters.

Wanting to explore? Watch out for that roaming elemental mage, he can see you from one mile away, and will one shot you in the blink of an eye. Need the stamina to run from him? Well then DROP your set of armor and attempt to run naked screaming back to Riverwood, only to be hit in the back by a spell and insta-killed.

This is why I said the overhauls for Skyrim are UTTER TRASH. They are either amateurish pale imitation of OOO/FCOM and FWE (with MMM), or they're like Requiem - completely and utterly unreasonable.

Not to mention random spawns in Req are still level-scaled, as is much of the loot.

ROFL
#53GoldninjaPosted 7/16/2014 6:50:21 PM
ChromaticAngel posted...
Ningishzida posted...
I'd just play Morrowind or even Oblivion. Skyrim isn't worth playing, modded or not.


funny because Oblivion is actually worse than Skyrim.


Eh, I don't know. At least Oblivion lets me equip greaves. Plus, it has the Shivering Isles, which I found a lot more fun to explore than Cyrodil. Plus, it doesn't dumb down skills by making everything one-handed or two handed. One who is skilled with a sword may not necessarily be skilled with an axe, yet in Skyrim, it makes you a god with any one-handed weapon you get your paws in. I like Skyrim, but I at least see some of the issues here. The skill system has been lobotomized.
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#54Saga3Posted 7/16/2014 6:54:01 PM
The problem with Bethesda's open world games is the terrible artificial difficulty and streamlined/casual mechanics. I would agree if the 'difficulty' was more than 20/40/60/80/100% extra HP and damage.
#55NingishzidaPosted 7/16/2014 7:10:30 PM
Saga3 posted...
The problem with Bethesda's open world games is the terrible artificial difficulty and streamlined/casual mechanics. I would agree if the 'difficulty' was more than 20/40/60/80/100% extra HP and damage.


Yeah, Skyrim poses no challenge to anyone but casuals.

Skills increase at such a blindingly fast rate and the perks amplify the skill to such an obscene degree, relative to the enemy, that any gamer worth their weight in salt will be hard-pressed to find anything worth swinging a weapon or casting a spell at, beyond player lvl20.

Not to mention you can buy or loot rings and amulets, even in the early game, that give you approx +10% to skills. Wear two rings and an amulet, and there's +30% right there ontop of the amplifying perks. And then ontop of that you can increase skillgain rate with Standing Stones (+20%, and it's unmissably on the way to Riverwood, the 1st town) and Well-rested perk (+5%) thrown in, too! lol?

Where is the challenge here, you will be lvl10 after even the smallest dungeon crawl, especially if you know how to exploit grind, which even a monkey can work out how to do.

And many perks aren't even needed, they're completely gratuitous. Take smithing for example. You don't need to make anything past mid-tier orcish armor, because, assuming you are sensible in perk selection and crafting, dmg reduction from armor is ALREADY maxed out at orcish, and what little dent an enemy can do to your HPs through it, is quickly offset and trivialised by an insane health regen rate, meaning you're in effect invulnerable to physical dmg, even when mobbed and you just stand there still getting aggro'd on. Therefore the only reason to go for glass, ebony, daedric, draconic is FASHION STATEMENT, and that's it.

My level 30 orc never need to block, let alone invest in the block perk skillset. That was with the TK line of combat mods AND deadly combat. How sad is that...

Notice too how killcams wrest control from the player, resulting in unfair kills on player and enemies, just for a little cinematic gratuity that was even boring after seeing it once in Fallout 3 VATS? What nonsense!

I mean, really? u srs... ppl actually DEFEND this crap?


ROFL
#56Treason686Posted 7/16/2014 7:11:13 PM
Ningishzida posted...
Treason686 posted...
And you have programmed what, exactly? Nothing? Ever?


You don't need to be able to code to know their engine is clunky compared to others'.




Then you must define "clunky," and use a comparable game for comparison. The problem with that is there aren't really any similar games. They're really in a league of their own.



Bethesda does a pretty awesome job on Elder Scrolls games. They're critically acclaimed, they are the most mod friendly games out there, and they even release their quest development IDE complete with tutorials.

Bethesda's games are critically acclaimed because they do marketing blitzes through on/off-line publications and so journalists are gonna get sacked if they **** on their game, they aren't mod friendly because they need mod managers and tools to fight load order and conflicts, and Skyrim's Creation Kit initially didn't even work with out 3rd party tools, and still isn't as powerful as Oblivion's and Fallout 3's GECK.


That's an opinion. The fact is the no major dev releases tools like that, and it is, in fact, quite powerful. And how is it not as powerful? If you're going to say something, you ought to give an example, especially when you have a reputation as a troll.


They dev dress-up-dolly games with clunky combat, console limitations, bugs galore, level scaling and haven't put a climbable ladder in Elder Scrolls since 1996's Daggerfall.

The combat has improved greatly from Morrowind and gets better each release, the console limitations are largely eliminated by the IDE (Not to mention the fact that there just IS an IDE) and Bethesda released a high res texture pack for free.

I don't like level scaling either. At least it's improved from Oblivion. I didn't encounter any major bugs while playing and beating the game.

I'm not going to acknowledge your stupid comment about ladders.
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#57Madmax1985Posted 7/16/2014 7:23:06 PM
I i like skyrim and oblivion.

But when people act like those are "Bar setting" Games..... It just blows my mind.
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#58NingishzidaPosted 7/16/2014 7:28:00 PM
Treason686 posted...
I don't like level scaling either. At least it's improved from Oblivion.


How is static enemy scaling that only goes to lvl20 for 90% of the enemies (when the player is capped at lvl81, and uncapped with Legendary!) and 100% direct-to-player level-scaled loot "IMPROVED" from Oblivion's 100% direct-to-player level scaling and loot that continues to scale 100% of the enemies to player lvlmax?
#59cymanxPosted 7/16/2014 7:38:09 PM
If they designed their games with only the option of choosing difficulty at the start of the game, then it wouldn't affect anything. Nothing would really get changed all that much.
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#60TimePharaohPosted 7/16/2014 7:40:39 PM
Treason686 posted...

Then you must define "clunky," and use a comparable game for comparison. The problem with that is there aren't really any similar games. They're really in a league of their own.


lolwot