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Will we ever get a Batman game with an actual story?

#11bluemooglePosted 7/22/2014 7:52:22 PM
The cranky hermit posted...
If you're looking for depth, intricacy, or personal stories, you probably shouldn't be looking at things based on periodical comics.


It's assumptions like these that lead to a large number of non-gamers to think video games are exclusively toys for children, simple-minded murder simulators, or not worthy of being considered art (depending on which group of non-gamers you ask).
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#12The cranky hermitPosted 7/22/2014 8:03:20 PM(edited)
It's assumptions like these that lead to a large number of non-gamers to think video games are exclusively toys for children, simple-minded murder simulators

Slippery slope. And you holding up The Dark Knight Rises as a paragon of depth in storytelling doesn't do much to convince me that my assumption was wrong.

It's not that much of an assumption either. Business strategies of "tell a deep story" and "crank six out every month" don't seem like they'd mix that well. That goes for periodical literature in general. TV shows too.
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#13bluemooglePosted 7/22/2014 8:09:06 PM
The cranky hermit posted...
It's assumptions like these that lead to a large number of non-gamers to think video games are exclusively toys for children, simple-minded murder simulators

Slippery slope. And you holding up The Dark Knight Rises as a paragon of depth in storytelling doesn't do much to convince me that my assumption was wrong.


My goal wasn't to convince you that your assumption is wrong, but to show you that you're making an assumption. Since you just said you made an assumption, I really don't care how much you believe in it. That's a matter of how close-minded you want to be, and how willing you are to consider other possibilities.

Also, that's not a correct use of slippery slope.
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#14TimePharaohPosted 7/22/2014 8:14:13 PM(edited)
The cranky hermit posted...
It's not that much of an assumption either. Business strategies of "tell a deep story" and "crank six out every month" don't seem like they'd mix that well. That goes for periodical literature in general. TV shows too.


I'm confused, are you implying that "comics" have one writer, who does six different stories each and every single month? Or that a movie can have a "deep story", but a TV show can't even though it has 6 times longer to tell it? And that they don't plan stories out ahead of time, but every week just go "ok now what"?

Do you even?
#15The cranky hermitPosted 7/22/2014 8:24:50 PM
How isn't it a correct use of slippery slope? A slippery slope fallacy is when one assumes a discrete transition from Category A to Category B, without acknowledging the possibility of middle ground. Seems to me that is exactly what you did.

And what do you mean by "close-minded?" Do you refer to an inclination to reject ideas without due consideration? Or do you mean the more common Internet usage of "I don't like that your opinion contradicts mine, so I will pretend that your unwillingness to accept mine is a mental deficiency on your part" ? Judging from the fact that you haven't offered me any ideas or examples to consider, and plainly stated you don't intend to, I think you meant the latter.

I'm confused

Yes, yes you are.
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#16TehPwnzererPosted 7/22/2014 8:30:36 PM
ChromaticAngel posted...
TehPwnzerer posted...
Are you saying the Arkham games don't have a good story? What is there to tell? It's not like Batman is that complex of a character. We're not talking about Metal Gear Solid here.


please don't confuse "complex" for "convoluted"


Please don't argue semantics.
#17Zohar_MetatronPosted 7/22/2014 8:36:27 PM
The cranky hermit posted...
Business strategies of "tell a deep story" and "crank six out every month" don't seem like they'd mix that well.


It's almost like they might have different teams on each book who've had these stories written out in advance, or something.
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#18The cranky hermitPosted 7/22/2014 8:54:13 PM
It's almost like I never even implied otherwise. And actually, having lots of writers is another thing that gets in the way of "deep" storytelling - Batman *must* be a relatively blank slate if two dozen people are going to project their experiences and ideas on to him every year.
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#19bluemooglePosted 7/22/2014 9:06:09 PM(edited)
Discrete transition between what? Before we get all pedantic arguing definitions, why don't you show what you think is the slippery slope. All you've said is "slippery slope," which leads me to think my examples of video game assumptions is supposed to imply something about your comic book assumption. It's not. I didn't say whether any of those assumptions are right or wrong (maybe video games aren't art? Who's to say?). Rather, it was to illustrate how assumptions can come across as ignorant to people, just as those non-gamer assumptions often look ignorant to gamers.

I used close-minded in both senses of your definitions. (Though, since you did point out the difference, it is only fair that I assume you are giving everything due consideration. My apologies for not giving you the benefit of the doubt.). Anyway, as implied by your second definition, I don't intend to ever argue seriously about your beliefs/opinions, because they are exactly that, your beliefs. You're much more likely to change your mind with self-reflection than via some pointless internet debate. I am not going to waste my time finding examples of "deep" comic book stories, because honestly I don't know if there are examples. Again, I am not arguing you are wrong, I am arguing that you are making the assumption that Batman stories can't be deep because it's Batman, and that assumptions like those are part of the problem that's holding genres/medium "back".

I suppose I could find examples of assumptions holding a genre back, but I don't think you've actually disagreed about that? I dunno if I could find examples anyway, that would be a rather hard thing to prove. If you want examples for that, you're probably outta luck. For now, I guess it's my assumption on assumptions. How asinine sounding, but still a valid thing to consider, IMO :-)
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#20ShadowThaReaperPosted 7/22/2014 9:32:09 PM
bluemoogle posted...
It's assumptions like these that lead to a large number of non-gamers to think video games are exclusively toys for children, simple-minded murder simulators, or not worthy of being considered art


It's people like you that makes video games look like a medium for pretentious know nothings.

Whether it is or isn't considered art makes no impact on anything whatsoever.