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Will we ever get a Batman game with an actual story?

#31The cranky hermitPosted 7/23/2014 9:10:14 PM
What I do know is, if everyone, writers included, assumed that Batman stories cannot be deep, then no one will actually try to write deep Batman stories. Hence why I am saying assumptions like those hold the genre back.

And you're still wrong. It could also be the nature of the genre itself holding it back. You won't rule out there's a more fundamental problem than "assumptions," therefore you can't conclude that "assumptions" have anything to do with it.

Try applying your logic to something that you know is impossible. "If everyone assumed turnips cannot be squeezed for blood, then no one will actually try to squeeze blood from a turnip. Therefore assumptions like these hold turnip blood-squeezing back." The flaw in your logic should be pretty obvious now.

To use the video game analogy again, if everyone, including all developers, assumed that video games are exclusively toys for children, then they would only develop games for children

The analogy does not work. No developer would assume this. Video games were *never* exclusively toys for children. Long before Pong, Space War! was a very expensive toy exclusively for MIT researchers and students. Pong itself was prototyped at a local bar - hardly a place with child clientele.

I'm looking over at my shelf and can't find a single Batman graphic novel that doesn't have at least 5 different super villains.

How about The Killing Joke?
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#32SnipeStarPosted 7/23/2014 10:29:29 PM
do people still argue with cranky?

you never win people....
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#33bluemooglePosted 7/24/2014 2:40:21 AM
The cranky hermit posted...
Try applying your logic to something that you know is impossible. "If everyone assumed turnips cannot be squeezed for blood, then no one will actually try to squeeze blood from a turnip. Therefore assumptions like these hold turnip blood-squeezing back." The flaw in your logic should be pretty obvious now.


To help you out, let's use your example again. Instead of a turnip, make it a human. "If everyone assumed that you couldn't draw blood from a human, then no one would try. Therefore these assumptions can hold blood transfusions back." A little more reasonable, eh? Maybe still not the best input/output, but that's besides the point.

The point is, Inventing a preposterous application has no affect on the merit of the logic. It merely shows that the logic is consistent, even if that means maintaining consistency with absurd inputs leading to absurd outputs. On the other hand, if you input something reasonable, it works equally as well, but the output sounds less insane. That's why your turnip example doesn't really show me anything, since it doesn't affect the abstraction.

Whether the Batman case is absurd requires us to know he's intrinsically incapable of being deep before hand. You believe that is the case, but I believe is unprovable either way. I do understand that if we knew Batman stories cannot be deep, then yes, the assumption one way or another is irrelevant. We can try arguing whether it's possible to know Batman stories cannot be deep, but we're frankly unlikely to agree in that area, since it will ultimately boil down to gnosticism vs agnosticism (in the generic sense), and that about maxes out my tolerance of self-pretentiousness. I'll argue Batman, but keep that useless major away for me :-).

In other, shorter words, I am getting bored, so: you win!
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#34SchoolRumblePosted 7/24/2014 5:19:26 AM
The Court of Owls was awesome, if they made the first few volumes of New 52 Batman it'd be a decent game. Same with Year One, that'd me interesting as all hell.
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#35_GRIM_FANDANGO_Posted 7/24/2014 5:29:03 AM
I though the story of Asylum was quite focused. Sure, there was more than just one villain that you needed to defeat, but I thought that they incorporated them in the story pretty nicely. But that is just me. Also, the setting etc. was really all based on one smaller story in the Batman universe.

It was not until they took a broader open world city approach that the story became less focused. Or at least, that is what it felt like to me.
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#36Born LuckyPosted 7/24/2014 6:14:22 AM
I'm playing Asylum right now.

So far, it's almost all story.

Also . . .. Why would you want a super hero game with only one villain? That would be one lousy game. Games aren't single episode comics that you can read in 10 minutes, and yeah . . i said "comics".
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#37The cranky hermitPosted 7/24/2014 6:29:30 AM
To help you out, let's use your example again. Instead of a turnip, make it a human.

That doesn't help me out, and that isn't my example.

The point is, Inventing a preposterous application has no affect on the merit of the logic. It merely shows that the logic is consistent, even if that means maintaining consistency with absurd inputs leading to absurd outputs.

But there was nothing absurd about *my* input, only yours. And yet I reached an absurd conclusion anyway. This shows that the logic is flawed. You could come up with 99 counter-examples of your logic reaching seemingly reasonable and/or consistent results, and it wouldn't matter - it only takes one reductio ad absurdum to show that the logic is flawed.

Whether the Batman case is absurd requires us to know he's intrinsically incapable of being deep before hand.

No, it really doesn't. Simply acknowledging the mere possibility that Batman is a necessarily shallow character is the same as acknowledging that "assumptions" might be totally irrelevant.
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