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Why do internet providers advertise in bits and not bytes?

#41SinisterSlayPosted 8/7/2014 5:34:16 PM(edited)
ChromaticAngel posted...
zerodefect posted...
For example, a 15 megabit cable connection is faster than a 15 megabit ADSL connection. The reason is encapsulation and the incurred overheads on the delivery. ADSL is notorious as you have close to a 13% overhead over you sync rate (PPPoE, ATM, TCP/IP, etc) that is not all present on cable or ethernet connections.


this is not necessarily true.

People typically suffer slow speeds with ADSL because it's run through the phone line, and there is one master line that feeds the entire house, which gets split at various junctions lowering the max bandwidth available--if you get the junction that is closest to the outside line into your house, you will get a guaranteed 15 Mbps, and you won't get a guaranteed 15 Mbps with Cable which will go down just because a lot of folks in your neighborhood happen to be watching their Cable TV at the same time that you're trying to browse your internet.

Another reason ADSL suffers slower speeds is due to the distance it is from a major telephone switch box, folks out in remote ass areas will have slower ADSL speeds than someone living in a major city.

It's all really complex stuff, but the end point I'm trying to make here is that a 15 Mbps ADSL is not actually always slower than 15 Mbps Cable.


Also, ADSL tends to have crap upload speeds. The entire upload is needed for the overhead on the download. So if you upload and download at the same time you suffer a massive speed loss.
Back when I lived in a small town, Cable gave me 300kbytes down and DSL gave me 450kbytes down. I went with cable because it had 60kbytes for upload and could upload 60 and download 300 at the same time which made it great for gaming, the DSL had 45kbyte upload and if you uploaded full that my download would drop to below 50kbyte. As I played a lot of Rakion at the time, upload was very important since it was peer 2 peer servers. The difference was amazing, keeping with Rakion, on DSL it took nearly 20 seconds to login, and a match over 6 people jumped my lat from 72 to 500. On cable it would connect virtually instant, and would hold 50ms until about 14 players then I would spike if I was hosting, and be fine if I was not.
I've never gone back to DSL because of this.
I am still with the same provider, they now give 3.5mbyte down and 120kbyte up, and I can still do both at the same time. A few months ago I was hosting 5 archeblade servers and no one could tell I was also playing another MMO on my laptop and watching netflix. It didn't effect my servers latency at all.
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#42ChromaticAngelPosted 8/7/2014 5:36:37 PM
SinisterSlay posted...
ChromaticAngel posted...
zerodefect posted...
For example, a 15 megabit cable connection is faster than a 15 megabit ADSL connection. The reason is encapsulation and the incurred overheads on the delivery. ADSL is notorious as you have close to a 13% overhead over you sync rate (PPPoE, ATM, TCP/IP, etc) that is not all present on cable or ethernet connections.


this is not necessarily true.

People typically suffer slow speeds with ADSL because it's run through the phone line, and there is one master line that feeds the entire house, which gets split at various junctions lowering the max bandwidth available--if you get the junction that is closest to the outside line into your house, you will get a guaranteed 15 Mbps, and you won't get a guaranteed 15 Mbps with Cable which will go down just because a lot of folks in your neighborhood happen to be watching their Cable TV at the same time that you're trying to browse your internet.

Another reason ADSL suffers slower speeds is due to the distance it is from a major telephone switch box, folks out in remote ass areas will have slower ADSL speeds than someone living in a major city.

It's all really complex stuff, but the end point I'm trying to make here is that a 15 Mbps ADSL is not actually always slower than 15 Mbps Cable.


Also, ADSL tends to have crap upload speeds. The entire upload is needed for the overhead on the download. So if you upload and download at the same time you suffer a massive speed loss.
Back when I lived in a small town, Cable gave me 300kbytes down and DSL gave me 450kbytes down. I went with cable because it had 60kbytes for upload and could upload 60 and download 300 at the same time which made it great for gaming, the DSL had 45kbyte upload and if you uploaded full that my download would drop to below 50kbyte. As I played a lot of Rakion at the time, upload was very important since it was peer 2 peer servers. The difference was amazing, keeping with Rakion, on DSL it took nearly 20 seconds to login, and a match over 6 people jumped my lat from 72 to 500. On cable it would connect virtually instant, and would hold 50ms until about 14 players then I would spike if I was hosting, and be fine if I was not.
I've never gone back to DSL because of this.
I am still with the same provider, they now give 3.5mbyte down and 120kbyte up, and I can still do both at the same time. A few months ago I was hosting 5 archeblade servers and no one could tell I was also playing another MMO on my laptop and watching netflix. It didn't effect my servers latency at all.


I've had my best latency times with ADSL but for me (around 2ms in everything even in european servers), the fact that the maximum ADSL bandwidth possible just doesn't cut it for me is the reason I'll never use ADSL again.
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#43SinisterSlayPosted 8/7/2014 5:38:55 PM
I am sure it's a different situation everywhere, but that was just my experience and many others here as well.
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He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence
#44drinkPosted 8/7/2014 5:56:48 PM
First, lets understand what we are talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising
False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising, and misrepresentation of the product at hand, which may negatively affect many stakeholders specifically consumers.


ISP advertise the speed that the consumer can actually reach. Its not misleading at all. You pay for 50 Mb/s, you get 50 Mb/s. Its only misleading if you don't get the product as advertised.

This argument could have been better made using network cards. They says speeds up to 1000 Mb/s, but your will NEVER reach that speed.

As for the car MPG analogy, its a poor argument. Due to that the driver is in complete control of the MPG. You can in almost all cases get higher MPG than what the maker said is possible.
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#45Orestes417Posted 8/7/2014 6:27:10 PM
I max gigabit ethernet connections all the time.
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#46ChromaticAngelPosted 8/7/2014 6:31:13 PM(edited)
drink posted...
They says speeds up to 1000 Mb/s, but your will NEVER reach that speed.


to actually get 1000 Mb/s, you need two computers with gigabit ethernet nics, a gigabit switch, and have them both directly connected to the switch with CAT6 cable and then transfer a file directly from one to another. The HDD in the destination computer must also have SATA advanced enough to support 1000 Mb/s, and the HDD or SSD in question has to have a write speed of greater than 1000 Mb/s.

If you fail at any one of those, you will not get 1000 Mb/s.

That doesn't mean the hardware doesn't support it.
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#47zerodefectPosted 8/8/2014 4:44:09 AM
ChromaticAngel posted...
zerodefect posted...
For example, a 15 megabit cable connection is faster than a 15 megabit ADSL connection. The reason is encapsulation and the incurred overheads on the delivery. ADSL is notorious as you have close to a 13% overhead over you sync rate (PPPoE, ATM, TCP/IP, etc) that is not all present on cable or ethernet connections.


this is not necessarily true.

People typically suffer slow speeds with ADSL because it's run through the phone line, and there is one master line that feeds the entire house, which gets split at various junctions lowering the max bandwidth available--if you get the junction that is closest to the outside line into your house, you will get a guaranteed 15 Mbps, and you won't get a guaranteed 15 Mbps with Cable which will go down just because a lot of folks in your neighborhood happen to be watching their Cable TV at the same time that you're trying to browse your internet.

Another reason ADSL suffers slower speeds is due to the distance it is from a major telephone switch box, folks out in remote ass areas will have slower ADSL speeds than someone living in a major city.

It's all really complex stuff, but the end point I'm trying to make here is that a 15 Mbps ADSL is not actually always slower than 15 Mbps Cable.


Yes it is completely true.

I'm saying that the modems are currently both in full sync at 15mbps (the factors you mention would mean the modem is only partially synced up). I know what causes slow speeds and that is irrelevant to what I said. Both modems are achieving full speed, the cable connection would still be faster (however most ADSL service providers will account for overhead and set the profiles higher to account for this but we are going purely by modem sync rate).
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#48DrK MgIcIaNPosted 8/8/2014 4:55:50 AM
Worknofun370 posted...
nonexistinghero posted...
They specifically advertise in megabits because a lot of people are fooled into thinking they're megabytes.


You know what, support that claim. Lets see some proof that they're advertising in megabits simply to fool people.

I can support my claim that the networking world uses bits for network speed in a millisecond. So you support yours.


http://www.metrocast.com/internet_packages.cfm
#49_GRIM_FANDANGO_Posted 8/8/2014 5:07:39 AM(edited)
People want to advertise with large numbers.

You see it all the time. It is also why gaming mice advertise with having 9000 DPI even if there is no one who actually needs it. Or 10.000.000:1 "dynamic contrast" on your monitor.

In this case it is extra annoying, because it looks and sounds like it means megabyte per second, which is the measure that people are used to and see all the time (it is the measure their browser uses when downloading something, their OS uses when downloading an update, almost all sofware uses as an indication of download speed and so on). In fact, most people do not ever have to deal with any other measure for download speed outside of when they are dealing with an internet provider.
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#50SetzeraPosted 8/8/2014 6:13:39 AM
I suppose they should've just changed the name entirely. Instead of MB and Mb, have MB and ZB, or hebejebe.

I'll be the first to admit, I work in the tech field daily, and it wasn't until the last 2 topics, that I understood the difference between MB and Mb.

Possibly due to the amount of poor grammar I see online so much, that I just thought people didn't capitalize. On top of that, not researching it myself didn't correct the situation.

So, dang advertisers!
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