This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Are steam only games inmune to piracy?

#61SetzeraPosted 8/17/2014 3:08:39 PM
The cranky hermit posted...
So far the only way to prevent piracy is to please your fans, give them the benefit of the doubt.

Nobody ever prevented piracy by "pleasing their fans." Not even once. This is flimsy, rationalizing garbage.

I remember Ubisoft made 2 copies of a game once, one with DRM and one without, the one with DRM was hacked a pirated tons more times, than the version that had no DRM and could be easily done.

Whatever thing actually happened, you either misunderstood, or remembered wrong, or both. You know how I can tell? Because you don't even recall which game it was.


You're right, I was incorrect. It's wasn't Ubisoft, it was CD Projekt Red Studio / Atari.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Witcher-2-DRM-Free-Version-Was-Pirated-Less-Than-SecuROM-Version-42699.html

"The other interesting thing brought out in the interview is that when GOG offered The Witcher 2 without any DRM, they found out that it was ignored over the SecuROM, disc-based version of the game which appeared on torrents first and has been pirated more than 4 million times. That's right, the DRM-free version of The Witcher 2, which anyone could copy and paste onto another hard-drive with ease, was not pirated as quickly or as much as the disc-based, DRM version. "


So it did happen. Though my solution to just be nice to people may not work, it seems to work better than DRM.
---
| AMD FX-8350 @ 4.0 ghz | MSI 970A-G46 | MSI HD 7870 2GB | 8GB 1600 DDR3 | 650W Corsair | Win7 64bit | 1TB WD Blue | CM 912 HAF |
#62DaedalusExPosted 8/17/2014 3:34:27 PM
The cranky hermit posted...
You posted a link in another topic to a study that did precisely that - determine how many sales were lost. Yes, it was done years ago, it's a rough estimate, and it pertained to music rather than games, but that still flies in the face of the notion that determining lost sales is completely impossible.


No, it doesn't. It's a rough estimate precisely because it's impossible to determine. And "rough estimate" is being used very loosely here, as the figures are more in the realm of guesswork.

And yes, I know you said "the methodology is rubbish." But you failed to demonstrate this.


I don't need to. Any study seeking to define an unknowable figure is inherently flawed. The conclusion even states:

...we find that music downloading could have caused a 20% reduction in music sales worldwide between 1998-2002.

But that wasn't even the point. If you had bothered to respond to that post in context you might've seen that I wasn't challenging the idea that piracy is harmful, I was arguing that companies with a vested interest in stopping piracy tend to misrepresent the damage it causes.

Did you know that there were two other studies done on music piracy around the same time as the 20% one? One found that the number of lost sales was closer to 7%, and the other found that piracy didn't have a significant impact on sales at all. Guess which of the three studies the RIAA chose to cite?

Here's another study, from 2013, that found that not only is digital music piracy not harmful, but it actually helps sales:

Our results suggest that Internet users do not view illegal downloading as a substitute for legal digital music.Although positive and significant, our estimated elasticities are essentially zero: a 10% increase in clicks on illegal downloading websites leads to a 0.2% increase in clicks on legal purchase websites.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/131005609/JRC79605

Why isn't the RIAA citing this study on their website?
#63PsyEdPosted 8/17/2014 3:47:06 PM
When I was young....like 10 years ago back in uni days...i DID use pirated games to see if it was worth it. My only regret was I pirated Dues Ex....which was worth every single cent but I bought it later on. Thanks to cdkey sites and sites like greenman gaming/bundle stars....I get'em so cheap there is no need for piracy.
---
i7 3770k | ASUS GeForce GTX 780Ti ROG Matrix | 32GB DDR3 | 512GB Samsung SSD 840 Pro | ASUS Sabertooth Z77
#64The cranky hermitPosted 8/17/2014 5:48:35 PM(edited)
You're right, I was incorrect. It's wasn't Ubisoft, it was CD Projekt Red Studio / Atari.

And you're also incorrect about the DRM version being pirated "out of spite."
it was ignored over the SecuROM, disc-based version of the game which appeared on torrents first
By the time the DRM free version was released, the DRM'd version had been out for awhile, been on the torrents for awhile, and had traffic going already. Of course the DRM version got pirated more.

No, it doesn't. It's a rough estimate precisely because it's impossible to determine. And "rough estimate" is being used very loosely here, as the figures are more in the realm of guesswork.

What you really mean here is "I have no idea how statistics and estimations work, so I lump everything I don't understand with guessing as long as it's convenient to."

I don't need to. Any study seeking to define an unknowable figure is inherently flawed.

But it isn't seeking to *define* the figure. Just to get a rough enough approximation to prove or disprove a more general claim. And there's nothing inherently flawed about that. If you think a study must have 100% accuracy to be useful, every study ever performed is flawed in your eyes. Also, everyone who ever took a high school level course in statistics would think you a fool.

I was arguing that companies with a vested interest in stopping piracy tend to misrepresent the damage it causes.

You're not doing a very good job arguing that either. Your claims either fall flat, or fail to support this argument.

Here's another study, from 2013, that found that not only is digital music piracy not harmful, but it actually helps sales:

Not even close to finding that it "actually helps sales." This study deals entirely with digital sales. Total sales are not in the scope. In fact, the introduction pretty much concedes that earlier studies have shown piracy harms physical sales significantly.

Also, the RIAA would be more interested in studies dealing with impact on physical sales than digital sales.
---
http://thecrankyhermit.wikispaces.com/
Year-by-year analysis of the finest gaming has to offer, and (eventually) more!
#65Edavy89Posted 8/17/2014 6:35:20 PM
Nobody ever prevented piracy by "pleasing their fans." Not even once. This is flimsy, rationalizing garbage.


No, it's a solid point that is incredibly easy to grasp. I'll break it down for you even more though so you can understand. It is for all intents and purposes impossible to stop piracy, which means that the best way to combat it, is to make people *want* to support the company, aka "pleasing the fans". Will this prevent piracy entirely? No, of course not. However it will without a doubt reduce it. understand now?
#66SetzeraPosted 8/17/2014 6:42:35 PM
The cranky hermit posted...
You're right, I was incorrect. It's wasn't Ubisoft, it was CD Projekt Red Studio / Atari.

And you're also incorrect about the DRM version being pirated "out of spite."
it was ignored over the SecuROM, disc-based version of the game which appeared on torrents first
By the time the DRM free version was released, the DRM'd version had been out for awhile, been on the torrents for awhile, and had traffic going already. Of course the DRM version got pirated more.


Well, I'm not about to argue online about the specific details of something neither of us can truly prove without any room to doubt the other.

I at least hope we can agree, for TC's sake, that Steam games can be technically be pirated.
---
| AMD FX-8350 @ 4.0 ghz | MSI 970A-G46 | MSI HD 7870 2GB | 8GB 1600 DDR3 | 650W Corsair | Win7 64bit | 1TB WD Blue | CM 912 HAF |
#67SetzeraPosted 8/17/2014 6:43:52 PM
Edavy89 posted...
Nobody ever prevented piracy by "pleasing their fans." Not even once. This is flimsy, rationalizing garbage.


No, it's a solid point that is incredibly easy to grasp. I'll break it down for you even more though so you can understand. It is for all intents and purposes impossible to stop piracy, which means that the best way to combat it, is to make people *want* to support the company, aka "pleasing the fans". Will this prevent piracy entirely? No, of course not. However it will without a doubt reduce it. understand now?


And thank you, this is what I meant.
---
| AMD FX-8350 @ 4.0 ghz | MSI 970A-G46 | MSI HD 7870 2GB | 8GB 1600 DDR3 | 650W Corsair | Win7 64bit | 1TB WD Blue | CM 912 HAF |
#68The cranky hermitPosted 8/17/2014 6:58:25 PM
No, it's a solid point that is incredibly easy to grasp. I'll break it down for you even more though so you can understand. It is for all intents and purposes impossible to stop piracy, which means that the best way to combat it, is to make people *want* to support the company, aka "pleasing the fans". Will this prevent piracy entirely? No, of course not. However it will without a doubt reduce it. understand now?

If you had to correct his point for him, then it wasn't a solid point to begin with. Reducing piracy is not preventing piracy. You are not defending his point; you are substituting it with another one.

And there's plenty of doubt that this reduces piracy. Just how do you define "pleasing the fans?" Whatever your definition is, I don't think you'll be able to demonstrate that games meeting this definition get pirated any less than games that don't.

Well, I'm not about to argue online about the specific details of something neither of us can truly prove without any room to doubt the other.

What's to prove? It says so in the very text that you quoted. The DRM'd version was there first.
---
http://thecrankyhermit.wikispaces.com/
Year-by-year analysis of the finest gaming has to offer, and (eventually) more!
#69Edavy89Posted 8/17/2014 7:16:09 PM
I didn't have to correct it for him, I had to explain it for you. He simply made the mistake of assuming people on gamefaqs have common sense and didn't need it spelled out to them in black and white.

And yes, reducing piracy is preventing it, if it simply stops one person from pirating the game, it "prevented" them from pirating it. You seem to be mistaking preventing piracy with eliminating piracy, which no one ever claimed.

And in all reality, all you are doing at this point is playing the semantics game, which is tedious and pointless.
#70MewonePosted 8/17/2014 7:24:30 PM
lol, careful talking about piracy here. I was modded on these forums for "illegal activities" without the chance to contest just for saying that I think piracy is okay in certain situations. I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thread got shut down by some massively biased, anti-piracy mod.
---
IndieGamers.com :: Indie / Tabletop / Abandonware