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Guacamelee: Super Turbo Championship Edition strikes Steam this week

#1badboyPosted 8/19/2014 2:19:32 AM
http://www.joystiq.com/2014/08/18/guacamelee-super-turbo-championship-edition-strikes-steam-this

http://store.steampowered.com/app/275390
#260fpsPosted 8/19/2014 3:35:16 AM
Capcom always had the excuse back in the day of not being able to patch games like we can now. Even they made sure to update with patches starting with Super Street Fighter 4.

Now we have publishers releasing upgrades as entirely new games as if patches or DLC doesn't exist to accomplish the same goal. Sorry, but as much as I enjoyed this game I can't support this crap. Deus Ex Director's Cut, Strike Suit Zero Director's Cut, Sleeping Dogs Definitive Edition, Metro Redux, and I'm sure there's other I forget. They're just selling the exact same game twice to people with a shinier bow.
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#3badboy(Topic Creator)Posted 8/19/2014 3:45:35 AM
They are offering 66% discount for those who bought the original one.
#460fpsPosted 8/19/2014 7:49:39 AM
Yeah, I'll still sit it out at $5. I just don't like the practice of having the consumer believe they have all there is only to repackage everything in a new way a short time later.

I'm also sure that the full game will be 75% off by winter and in a bundle in a year or before a sequel if they plan one.
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#5notSFFPosted 8/19/2014 9:46:32 AM
Hmm...well, what I did play of the Gold Edition was fantastic, it'll only be five bucks for me, and I HAVE been looking for an excuse to replay it since my attention had been taken by other games I've been playing.

I'll think about it.
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#6Killah PriestPosted 8/19/2014 9:50:12 AM
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/game-industry-needs-more-and-better-ways-to-make-m/1100-6421729/
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#7-CJF-Posted 8/19/2014 9:53:58 AM
60fps posted...
Capcom always had the excuse back in the day of not being able to patch games like we can now. Even they made sure to update with patches starting with Super Street Fighter 4.

Now we have publishers releasing upgrades as entirely new games as if patches or DLC doesn't exist to accomplish the same goal. Sorry, but as much as I enjoyed this game I can't support this crap. Deus Ex Director's Cut, Strike Suit Zero Director's Cut, Sleeping Dogs Definitive Edition, Metro Redux, and I'm sure there's other I forget. They're just selling the exact same game twice to people with a shinier bow.


Ugh, this should be free to anyone that bought the original. I love seeing remasters and re-releases of old games but it really puts me off when they do it with new ones. Just release a DLC or give it as a free upgrade.
#8KaiserWarriorPosted 8/19/2014 10:11:18 AM
Having played Guacamelee Gold and done everything there is to do in it (gotten the true ending, found all of the upgrades, gotten gold on all of the El Infierno challenges), I can't see Super Turbo being worthwhile. The game was entertaining, but it was a shallow imitator of Metroid's greatness and isn't worth a second playthrough, let alone a second purchase.

Killah Priest posted...
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/game-industry-needs-more-and-better-ways-to-make-m/1100-6421729/


Eh, the industry's been pretty on-point with "monetizing the back catalog". We've had Collection releases as far back as the SNES with Super Mario All-Stars, and it got really prevalent in the heady days of the Playstation era with all of those Williams Arcade Classics and Konami arcade library releases. Nintendo's been pushing their Virtual Console pretty hard, although I'll have nothing to do with their absurdly overpriced pap ($5 for 100KB of 30-year-old ROM data? Nope.)

The problem is that a very substantial chunk of the market for older titles is composed of the sort of person that understands that control method is important when you're talking about an interactive medium, so they go and get the original hardware and the original carts or discs which still exist. If they could offer me a subscription-based service that got me unlimited access to every game for every system from the Atari 2600 up to, say, the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox/Dreamcast era, I might be interested -- but I probably still wouldn't do it because there's no way they could approximate all of the different controllers in any reasonable fashion.

And then you have the problem of compatibility. With movies and music, it's easy. Video data is video data, and it's simple to play it back. If you want to re-release a movie on a new format, all you do is take the video data and re-encode it to the new format, which is a known, repeatable, automatable process. Video games, as interactive software, are not nearly so simple. You either have to rebuild the game from scratch using the original assets and re-writing a new game that uses those assets on new hardware, or you have to build a system for emulating the hardware that the original game ran on. Results are frequently sub-optimal at best, altering the game in subtle or not-so-subtle ways that are likely to piss off people that wanted to play the original game.

For example, we still don't have reliable Sega Saturn emulation, because the Saturn was such an oddball piece of hardware that involved two separate CPUs and graphics hardware that was based on quads instead of triangles.
#9-CJF-Posted 8/19/2014 10:20:24 AM
KaiserWarrior posted...
Having played Guacamelee Gold and done everything there is to do in it (gotten the true ending, found all of the upgrades, gotten gold on all of the El Infierno challenges), I can't see Super Turbo being worthwhile. The game was entertaining, but it was a shallow imitator of Metroid's greatness and isn't worth a second playthrough, let alone a second purchase.

Killah Priest posted...
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/game-industry-needs-more-and-better-ways-to-make-m/1100-6421729/


Eh, the industry's been pretty on-point with "monetizing the back catalog". We've had Collection releases as far back as the SNES with Super Mario All-Stars, and it got really prevalent in the heady days of the Playstation era with all of those Williams Arcade Classics and Konami arcade library releases. Nintendo's been pushing their Virtual Console pretty hard, although I'll have nothing to do with their absurdly overpriced pap ($5 for 100KB of 30-year-old ROM data? Nope.)

The problem is that a very substantial chunk of the market for older titles is composed of the sort of person that understands that control method is important when you're talking about an interactive medium, so they go and get the original hardware and the original carts or discs which still exist. If they could offer me a subscription-based service that got me unlimited access to every game for every system from the Atari 2600 up to, say, the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox/Dreamcast era, I might be interested -- but I probably still wouldn't do it because there's no way they could approximate all of the different controllers in any reasonable fashion.

And then you have the problem of compatibility. With movies and music, it's easy. Video data is video data, and it's simple to play it back. If you want to re-release a movie on a new format, all you do is take the video data and re-encode it to the new format, which is a known, repeatable, automatable process. Video games, as interactive software, are not nearly so simple. You either have to rebuild the game from scratch using the original assets and re-writing a new game that uses those assets on new hardware, or you have to build a system for emulating the hardware that the original game ran on. Results are frequently sub-optimal at best, altering the game in subtle or not-so-subtle ways that are likely to piss off people that wanted to play the original game.

For example, we still don't have reliable Sega Saturn emulation, because the Saturn was such an oddball piece of hardware that involved two separate CPUs and graphics hardware that was based on quads instead of triangles.


I think emulation is going to die out sooner or later. New consoles are getting more and more complex and it just isn't practical to write fully functional emulators without any official documentation of how the hardware actually works.

I think a service like the one you are describing has more of a future with refinement of the type of technology used by services such as OnLive. This way they can use the original hardware to stream games to any device without the intense hardware requirements of emulation or the massive time investment required to write complex emulators for new systems.

Of course, a lot of changes and improvements would have to be made before such a system were actually viable. Input lag would have to be drastically reduced and 1080p+ would have to be available for more modern consoles. Internet speeds and data caps would also have to be significantly boosted.
#10KaiserWarriorPosted 8/19/2014 10:30:19 AM(edited)
That simply wouldn't be workable. You'd have to have, for example, an SNES sitting somewhere running a game for every person that wanted to play an SNES game at that moment in time, and the fact is that the hardware doesn't exist in the kind of quantities that this sort of service would require. They're not making any more of these older consoles, and over time the hardware count just dwindles further as units break or get lost.

You would be surprised what we're capable of with emulation. PS2/Gamecube/PSP/DS all have excellent solutions available. As you get into the more modern consoles -- the 360 and the PS3 and beyond -- their architecture is getting increasingly similar to PCs (the Cell processor being the one glaring exception), to the point that they're really just PCs with a custom OS. I think we'll see emulation of them getting easier, rather than harder, especially as modern PC power grows and people can lean more and more heavily on HLE rather than LLE for doing the heavy lifting.

For instance, take the Taito X2 board. Although it's dedicated arcade hardware, it's more or less a PC in an arcade cabinet, and we now have solutions that will actually natively boot X2-based games on a PC. Consoles are trending in this direction as well, so I suspect we'll begin to see similar solutions there.