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SJW are begging to black out steam access for 1 hour.

#341OdttPosted 8/30/2014 5:58:21 PM(edited)
Lunitik Muzik posted...
Odtt posted...
As for the people that say that "gaming has been a predominantly male pastime", read current statistics, and if you don't count every girl that plays farmville and candy crush, then I won't count every college fratboy that exclusively plays Call of Duty and the yearly EA sports game. Sounds fair, right?


That's a false equivalency, and a dumb one at that. The fairest move would be to not include the males who play Farmville and Candy Crush as "gamers", along with the females. It's like including someone who plays Minesweeper or Solitaire as gamers, you could, but by the loosest connection possible; and it's likely they wouldn't consider themselves gamers anyways.

Hell, even throwing gender completely out of the debate: it's hilarious, and a bit scary, that you'd want someone who casually plays a mobile game to have an equal say in the industry's direction compared to a person who goes out and spends the hundreds of dollars on the equipment necessary to play these games. We're seeing some of the results of that now, and it hurts all of us who actually enjoy this hobby.

And yes, there is a bit of "entitlement" involved, but not in a bad sense. I know it's been demonized by feminists and game journalists, but it's not a negative word or concept itself. If you enjoy something enough to waste hundreds of dollars on it you want to see it improve, not end up a crappier version of itself. That's just out of love of your hobby, not some sexist attitude.


Yet you don't explain how adding more diversity in games would ruin your experience of them. On top of that, people use the "oh, but the girls are playing farmville" phrase and don't acknowledge those that play console and PC games.

Care to explain what results you are talking about, or how this will make games crappier? A lot of arguments from the side you're opposing say that games would be stronger, and I would also say that they'd be a more respected medium and would encourage developers to stop "playing it safe", resulting in a greater diversity of games available, especially in today's market where so few new ideas are coming out. Anyone with the money can buy a console and a game, I really do not know where taking ownership of a hobby and the elitist attitude towards it started, because you cannot "own" a hobby, and many people are scared about the possibility of future games not solely catering to a male audience.
#342rtkamb1770Posted 8/30/2014 5:59:57 PM(edited)
I'v played games together with girls since I was a kid.
also, I feel that this is somehow relevant right now http://youtu.be/7Ot1ZthmQ60
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Agains my better judgment, I have decided to put my MAL URL here:
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#343calcyclePosted 8/30/2014 6:12:22 PM
Odtt posted...

Care to explain what results you are talking about, or how this will make games crappier? A lot of arguments from the side you're opposing say that games would be stronger, and I would also say that they'd be a more respected medium and would encourage developers to stop "playing it safe", resulting in a greater diversity of games available, especially in today's market where so few new ideas are coming out. Anyone with the money can buy a console and a game, I really do not know where taking ownership of a hobby and the elitist attitude towards it started, because you cannot "own" a hobby, and many people are scared about the possibility of future games not solely catering to a male audience.

I disagree with your assessment that mobile and Facebook games are a positive influence on games. F2P pay walled cash shop games, which if you want to own everything in the game would cost even more than a retail game including dlc, are not a good influence.

You can even see their practice spread with the countless microtransactions and cash shops in games nowadays. I'd rather take a console game than a casual f2p game since it will cost less overall for what you should get.
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Do not add to the Chocolate of Coach, or worship false Bills for this will imprison thou within the Blood Harvest finale for all eternity
#344OdttPosted 8/30/2014 6:18:48 PM
calcycle posted...
Odtt posted...

Care to explain what results you are talking about, or how this will make games crappier? A lot of arguments from the side you're opposing say that games would be stronger, and I would also say that they'd be a more respected medium and would encourage developers to stop "playing it safe", resulting in a greater diversity of games available, especially in today's market where so few new ideas are coming out. Anyone with the money can buy a console and a game, I really do not know where taking ownership of a hobby and the elitist attitude towards it started, because you cannot "own" a hobby, and many people are scared about the possibility of future games not solely catering to a male audience.

I disagree with your assessment that mobile and Facebook games are a positive influence on games. F2P pay walled cash shop games, which if you want to own everything in the game would cost even more than a retail game including dlc, are not a good influence.

You can even see their practice spread with the countless microtransactions and cash shops in games nowadays. I'd rather take a console game than a casual f2p game since it will cost less overall for what you should get.


That was not my argument at all. But FYI, "free to play" games have been around for MUCH longer than Facebook and smartphone casual games, so the more recent cash shops, microtransactions, and nickel and diming practice in current games you already PAY retail price for are not a direct result of these facebook games, and this dirty practice is only continued because complacent gamers keep forking over their money.
#345ElfpwnagePosted 8/30/2014 6:56:26 PM
rockman202 posted...
Odtt posted...
Elfpwnage posted...
IsayUsay posted...
Callmege posted...
ITT: The Internet boys club gets its panties in a massive bunch because it doesn't want to accept change and can't accept that it isn't relevant anymore.


This is the long and the short of it.

Boys, what scares you so much about a more equal society? Is it because you're too cowardly to look inwardly?


It's likely like the comic book guys who say "Girls aren't into comic books." They don't wanna accept females can be into their hobby too because then that means they can't use the excuse of girls not being into them cause they're a gamer and its just their own craptastic personality and ways.


^


Change being shutting down steam apparently. Yeah, I am against that kind of change.


Shutting down Steam won't do a thing honestly.

The change that we should see is just more diversity in game protagonists. Instead of games starring a dominantly white male lead, how about we see it changed up to a more diverse scene of lead characters? And then support those games that take the chance to try to diversify it up (Within reason, if they still make a crappy game then yeah, don't support them making a piece of crap) but at least put it on your radar to pick up at some point to show game companies that yes, gamers do want a more diverse cast. I know it's risky to deviate from what sells now, but change like that is a good thing because we can tell so many more stories if we embrace changing things up.
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#346rockman202Posted 8/30/2014 7:07:51 PM
Elfpwnage posted...

The change that we should see is just more diversity in game protagonists. Instead of games starring a dominantly white male lead, how about we see it changed up to a more diverse scene of lead characters? And then support those games that take the chance to try to diversify it up (Within reason, if they still make a crappy game then yeah, don't support them making a piece of crap) but at least put it on your radar to pick up at some point to show game companies that yes, gamers do want a more diverse cast. I know it's risky to deviate from what sells now, but change like that is a good thing because we can tell so many more stories if we embrace changing things up.


I don't think anyone disagrees with that. Most of the disagreement over the SJW and Anita are the lies and distortions they commit that piss people off. Whenever someone tries to bring stuff like this up, they are either accused of being sexist, misogynistic, whatever. Or they are ignored and attention is brought up about internet trolls.
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#347Lunitik MuzikPosted 8/30/2014 7:08:34 PM
Odtt posted...
Yet you don't explain how adding more diversity in games would ruin your experience of them.

Because I never said it would? But you're welcome to explain how it would change it for the better. We have a number of important females in the industry, and have for years, who are responsible for huge things; and yet we're still having this argument. Things are still awful, apparently. It could always improve, but it's not a crisis, as some of make it out to be.

That said, diversity isn't inherently good or bad. It's a buzzword that's brought about now without any substance. And honestly, many developers attempts at it leave me wishing they just stopped altogether. Diversity for the sake of diversity often leads one down the path of "black character" not "character who happens to be black"(Lee Everett and Clementine, are two quick recent examples), and it's more annoying than it is helpful. I'm saying this as a black/native american male, by the way.

On top of that, people use the "oh, but the girls are playing farmville" phrase and don't acknowledge those that play console games.

So? I mean, I see how that's slightly offensive, but suddenly including the opinions of women who will never play anything outside of a mobile game doesn't magically improve a thing for the ones that do.

Care to explain what results you are talking about, or how this will make games crappier

Using mobile game tactics to sell more content in a console/PC market. Core titles being revived and killed off because they didn't win the mobile market lottery. Inflating the number of sales and budget needed to be successful even higher because including the mobile market in these stats. Wasted money and development time. I can keep going...

A lot of arguments from the side you're opposing say that games would be stronger

Except, that beyond a bunch of buzzwords and empty sentences, they never give any valid reasons. Their article essentially amount to "You are a bad person. Let me explain why. Add more diversity!".

I don't need you to explain the experience of being a minority/female in the world to me. Adding a black character to Call Of Duty, or whatever, isn't going to improve my life or gaming experience. I'm not going to break down and cry and thank jesus for it. I'm going to nod, move the **** on; and most importantly, hope the game is enjoyable.

(1/2)
#348Lunitik MuzikPosted 8/30/2014 7:08:55 PM
and I would also say that they'd be a more respected medium and would encourage developers to stop "playing it safe", resulting in a greater diversity of games available, especially in today's market where so few new ideas are coming out.

That's very very debatable. We're seeing plenty of ideas now, I'd argue more than in the past. The bar to create a game is so low now it's insane. They just aren't as mainstream as a GTA or CoD, and they don't need to be.Also, it's laughable that they would stop playing it safe. Developers are forced into being as politically correct as possible as ever these days. Even the smallest and most innocent of mistakes can see big sites and a fanbase **** on you.

Anyone with the money can buy a console and a game

And yet these people aren't interested in buying a console, parts, or these games. At some point you have to ask: Are mobile games popular because of convenience? Or is it because the industry is sexist? The former sounds more plausible.

I really do not know where taking ownership of a hobby and the elitist attitude towards it started, because you cannot "own" a hobby.

Why can't you "own" a hobby? There is nothing "elitist" about it. I don't hold my skills as a gamer over anyones head...well seriously anyways. That's corny. But to say the people who put time and money into said hobby and are responsible for keeping it alive should be brushed aside in favor of another crowd is crazy.
#349kblaze13Posted 8/30/2014 7:11:31 PM(edited)
Or ya know you could just not care what race/gender/sexual bias the protagonists have for the most part (unless it specifically deals with romancing which isn't THAT common or well written in most games that have it or integral to the world of the game itself) and treat the protagonists as just the hero(es) of the story being told in the game.
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Iightningz posted...
I hate Lightning.
#350ElkiadorPosted 8/30/2014 7:11:17 PM
I love how "diversity" in video games automatically defaults to playing as a character with different skin color or genitals and not different gameplay experiences. Really shows you where the priorities of the "social justice" people are. They don't want new and unique games, they just want CoD with a black lesbian in a wheelchair as the main character.