So I just decided to solo nightmare with a rogue

#21doom111Posted 11/26/2009 5:04:05 AM
Good luck soloing until you get combat stealth.
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I am never wrong.
#22greekwateramuse(Topic Creator)Posted 11/26/2009 5:39:26 AM
Thx for that thread Isaac_Redfield, some really helpful advice in there. I'm not going melee rogue, I abandoned that idea because the whole point of them is backstabbing and I can't do that when I'm soloing, so I went archer too. I have some ideas about the ogre, I think with a lot of pots and some acid bombs I might just make it.
#23FTLulzPosted 11/26/2009 6:30:07 AM
>.> well assuming you hit end game, DW rogues really don't need to back stab lol.
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How come so many character driven stories have a cast that doesn't even resemble real life people?
#24Isaac_RedfieldPosted 11/26/2009 6:39:32 AM
I found myself just letting my PC Rogue do his own thing at least 50% of the time later on and in larger fights after priority targets were eliminated. I would usually start him out in stealth then flurry kill something from behind, but after that it would take too much time to position and then reposition over and over in clumped groups just to get "more" damage when I could have just been doing frontal damage or Coup De Grace face stabs if they were stunned or paralyzed. If there was something like an Ogre or a very high hit point enemy, of course I would micro him behind, but otherwise it just became too tedious since you still have to micro everyone else at least part of the time.
#25Isaac_RedfieldPosted 11/26/2009 6:45:05 AM
Also, I think the trick to soloing as a Rogue of any spec is Lockpicking + Cunning very early on. It might seem like a waste of skill points, especially if you don't really want to dump much into Cunning or you don't want to dump much into the lockpicking tree but it's what will level you up the fastest and it's also what will allow you to wear the Warden's Armor the quickest (the faster you get it the less strength required, min is 26 I believe).

If you're going melee then the Warden's set is fantastic for a Rogue early on, although I'm not sure how great it would be for an Archer, especially with the fatigue and rate of fire issues until Master Archer. Shadow of the Empire is probably the best "low level" chest you can get but don't quote me on it.

It also doesn't hurt to pickpocket anyone and everyone, it all adds up. And if the 10 second cooldown irritates you, you can always get the mod that drops it to 1.5 seconds. It's not really cheating as much as speeding up the process of what you intend to do anyway instead of just standing there waiting for a cooldown. I also think that once you steal from someone, you pretty much take anything they had forever, so they are effectively "empty" for the rest of the game. I've tried stealing multiple times from people I already stole from later on and they never had anything more.
#26FTLulzPosted 11/26/2009 7:16:15 AM
Pretty sure Massive Armor is what WC set is, regardless of tier. So it'll always affect attack speed.

I don't see how cunning rogues would benefit in the long run though. Given they get better XP and certain junk items which adds up to about maybe 1-3 levels over the course of the entire game I believe? But unless you are going to over level each area you enter, there's no point since the game scales to a limited degree. I'm not saying it's impossible, but say you enter Red Cliffe off the bat after Lothering, you still need to get to level 12 or something so you can benefit from the extra experience. I don't see how that's doable, even if you do WK and Shale first, at least on a reasonable basis.

With strength rogues, you get super armor meant for warriors. Warden's Commander Set is probably the greatest reason you'll ever take a strength rogue along with Starfang being a free super, something you'll heavily depend on during a solo NM run.

With DEX rogues, you get to play the 150 defense of doom, and get to run daggers from start to finish. If you have The Edge, the choice is a no brainer since you start out with the 2nd best dagger in the game. It's also the easiest to level up by I believe (taking full advantage of momentum by zerging it the moment you finish Origins or earlier), and it's just a matter of sacrificing armor for defense, which in my opinion is far far better because it's something you can actually excel in. Only AW can excel in armor boosting, so why bother?

That and evasion requires 35 dex. Investing so much into the much needed 20% mitigation (from stuns and other physical effects too!) seems too demanding for cunning/strength rogues if you solo. That and let's face it, as SOLO, you rely purely on yourself, so no one's going to buff you. That also means cunning rogues get hurt hard because nothing is there to buff you up on attack rating.

You can't have another rogue use song of courage while you go assassin/duelist. You can't have heroic offense which gives upwards of 20+ attack rating and can be kept consistently. You don't have warrior rally. While cunning dagger is by far the strongest, it simply requires too much attention and same goes for cunning sword or axe.

Dex daggers on the other hand, are the best damn DPS you can get from a rogue that's not cunning. So again, no brainer.

Finally, Assassin's Mark of Death may be useful, but the other 3 skills are garbage for normal, assuming you want true solo and not ranger (otherwise, it's ALWAYS ranger) you'll go bard/duelist. Giving up the 2.5% critical is heavy, since you actually rely on crits more than backstabs, but when soloing, there may be times you have to sit your ass go AFK while in stealth just to wait for cool downs. That and 2.5% crit and Mark of Death in no way beats 10 atk/defense + 1dmg/hit + PPS.

But you're still gonna get butthurt by those who can CC you.
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How come so many character driven stories have a cast that doesn't even resemble real life people?
#27Isaac_RedfieldPosted 11/26/2009 7:26:25 AM
"Pretty sure Massive Armor is what WC set is, regardless of tier. So it'll always affect attack speed."

I just deleted ALL of my saves, so I can't actually check until I get it again but I'm pretty sure it's not massive at tier 3 and only 26 str but I could be wrong. After you sell it and buy it back it ends up being tier 6/7 which is massive and requires 38/42 str.
#28Isaac_RedfieldPosted 11/26/2009 7:35:06 AM
"it's just a matter of sacrificing armor for defense, which in my opinion is far far better because it's something you can actually excel in. Only AW can excel in armor boosting, so why bother?"

I'm not sure if you noticed, but the Warden's set gives a gigantic boost to stamina and even with the fatigue it more than makes up for it in spades. You also won't avoid 100% of the physical attacks so when you DO get hit it's going to hurt. Strength will also be useful for damage and if you're using Starfang it requires 36 (?) strength to even use which seems too much for a solo Rogue build.

If you're playing an Archer build strength is still useful for longbows, but I would still probably focus exclusively on Dex after any armor requirements are met (22 if you don't plan on Warden's). And if you are going to use Ranger, Cunning is debateable. I don't know if the Bard song will help your pet at all but on top of that require cunning to a point to be very useful. If you're wanting to unlock things the cunning will help with that anyway but then your DPS will be a little less until you pick up leathality...a three point investment that could have also just gone towards lockpicking and dumping points into dex instead.
#29FTLulzPosted 11/26/2009 7:47:06 AM
I never said WC set doesn't have benefits, but it's not like just a DPS point of view END GAME it's so much more superior to every other choice. I mainly pointed out that the value of WC set is that it front loads the benefit with Starfang right away, making Strength Rogues the easiest early on. But you've gotta be joking me if you're saying WC set beats out stuff like Felon's Coat/Red Jenny Gloves/etc.

Stamina, again, is worthless. You use dirty fighting, below the belt, and dual sweep as your consistent buttons. You press PPS as your oh !@#$ button. That's not a lot of stamina to use, specially if you rush a stamina regen item like AB belt.

And while you won't avoid 100% hits, you will avoid far far more than strength, and you net evasion which I ALREADY POINTED OUT EARLIER. Since you also lack reading comprehension, understand that a dex rogue has nothing to do with Starfang, and therefore you only need 20 strength WITH items + Fade bonuses.

Your argument of 36 strength of Starfang actually bites back at you, because as I've said, if you want evasion, which is pretty damn good for a SOLO run cause it's basically a flat 20% decrease in physical damage AND effects (unlike armor though negated by strength but again made up for by superior defense), you need 35 dexterity. Unlike Starfang which is replaceable, evasion is much more important.

But I've already said that in my previous post, but I believe that because I didn't caps lock all the important points you may have missed it. I believe if this post doesn't get through, I shall hence forth be highlighting every single key variable, or hell I might as well do a power point from now on.
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How come so many character driven stories have a cast that doesn't even resemble real life people?
#30Isaac_RedfieldPosted 11/26/2009 8:30:47 AM
"But you've gotta be joking me if you're saying WC set beats out stuff like Felon's Coat/Red Jenny Gloves/etc. "

Depends on the build.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/66/index/223777