Logain (spoiler I guess)

#1seaburnePosted 4/6/2011 6:08:48 AM
Why on earth would any rational charcter want to keep Logain alive at the landsmeet? Now Im no hardcore Rp'er who has to be that in tune with their character, but really why would anyone keep they guy who has been trying to kill you all the way through the game alive. It's like the roadrunner suddenly turning to wille cayote and asking for his help across the canyon.

I understand that people wanna see different endings so you might do it for the lulz but why was this such a major option?
#2RegisterHellPosted 4/6/2011 6:38:29 AM
You may come to understand his viewpoint, and figure that a death penalty wasn't appropriate.
#3Pram_the_OraclePosted 4/6/2011 7:45:02 AM
On the off chance the blood kills him in a really painful way, or you figure might as well recruit as many grey wardens as possible, or you want to keep him alive so you can torture him, or you're practically a saint, or you know what's in store in the future and plan accordingly.
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Chant the name of BlAcK TuRtLe, winner of the 2010 Guru Challenge!
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#4CloudZ1116Posted 4/6/2011 10:11:52 AM
Loghain did what he thought was right for all the wrong reasons. Sure, that doesn't make him any less of a dick, but read The Stolen Throne or bring him along on Return to Ostagar and maybe you can see his side of things.

Or, think about it the way the Qunari do: they don't waste human resources. Me, I like to think that keeping Loghain alive while putting Alistair on the throne is the "most complete playthrough" option.
#5guitarjgPosted 4/6/2011 10:12:48 AM
On my first playthrough, I chose Logain and exiled Alistair.

Why? I simply didn't like Alistair, thought he was a punk, and needed the strongest ally to fight the Blight with me.

So, I chose to put Logain on the throne and banish Alistair. Just my personal opinion, I needed that arch demon dead.
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PSN ID - GuitarJG
#6The-MutantPosted 4/6/2011 11:09:37 AM
I was honestly very disappointed with Alistair in that scene. o_o His self-centered behavior tended to make me lean towards Loghain to begin with, even before I read the prequel novel :(

But yeah, it's all player preference. Some people will always think he's reprehensible and not worth keeping alive; others (like myself) recognize the value in retaining a powerful general in story context, and can understand (if not condone) his actions, since they all stemmed from patriotism and he does have a sympathetic side. Which is not to say that either choice is more 'wrong' than the other; it's just one of those grey-and-grey choices that BioWare delights in offering to the players of their games.
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This place has outlasted its usefulness... as have you! -Kain (Soul Reaver)
#71945fighterPosted 4/6/2011 2:16:39 PM
If I don't have to choose, I would pick to keep Loghain. He made a bad decision by deserting. I have no personal grudge, and this is just a man who can't say "oops, my bad. I'll make it up for you sometime. Please forgive me". He simply has no faith in Cailan, due to fear in Orlais, Cailan childish (puppy like as Wynne suggested) and he keeps assuming what Maric would have done. Which in the end what he sees in Alistair. However, Loghain to Alistair is what Howe is to Human Noble. I was very disappointed that there is no way to reconcile with him afterward. The same way there is no way I would spare Howe. Honestly, the safest bet is to keep him. "Let's keep him for now, and let him die from killing Archdemon (god damn it Riordan tell this sooner). And prevent future threat from whatever OGB may become (for those who chose that she's not to be trusted)."
#8Duke DarkwoodPosted 4/6/2011 10:56:54 PM
HUGE SPOILERS AHEAD!

NO, SERIOUSLY, HYOOOOOOOOOOOJ SPOILERS.

GIGANTIC, ENORMOUS, EARTH-SPLITTING SPOILERS.

IF YOU HAVE NOT BEATEN THIS GAME, YOU'D BETTER NOT READ ANY FARTHER.

WHY ARE YOU STILL READING? HAVE YOU BEAT THE GAME?

DO YOU ALREADY KNOW THESE SPOILERS?

WELL, ALL RIGHT THEN. BUT I HAD TO ASK. GAMEFAQS POLICY.

THIS... IS SPOILER SPACE.

Ahem. Sorry about that, but this is gonna be some heavy stuff, and I don't want to take any chances.

Let's start with this.

Loghain did what he thought was right for all the wrong reasons.

This is basically it. And you don't really need to have read the novel, or brought him to Ostagar, to get enough info about where he's coming from.

First, there is the question of status regarding the Blight. It had been four centuries since the last one. Anyone NOT in the Grey Wardens would think the Blight the stuff of stories. They don't even know the signs that indicate a true Blight, and so Loghain just saw this as an unusually large Darkspawn incursion. And they most definitely don't know the true and real reason why only Grey Wardens can defeat a Blight.

Second, look at where Loghain's coming from. This guy grew up in a Ferelden under the rule of Orlais. He lived in a nation that had been conquered by a foreign power. And in time, he joined the rebellion against this foreign power, to restore the Fereldan royal line to the throne. He fought against the Orlesians. He helped Maric, who he had become a close friend of during the war, drive them out.

Naturally, this would give him a categorically negative opinion of Orlais and all things Orlesian. Years of oppression, followed by years of war, drive this enmity deep. Few people are capable of setting that aside, and Loghain mac Tir is not one of those few.

The Grey Wardens are an Orlesian institution. Rather, their leadership is housed there, so regardless of it serving Thedas as a whole, tehre are those, such as Loghain, who will see that it's led in Orlais, and not care about the details.

Even through all this, though, Loghain is also a patriot. He loves Ferelden. The problems arise when his biased perceptions get in the way. Even when he has no choice but to admit it's a Blight, he still thinks that it should be Fereldans who save Ferelden - because he does not know the Wardens' secret. And because the Grey Wardens are based in Orlais, he refuses to let the land of his childhood oppressors come back. He helped Maric drive them out, and he will make sure they STAY out.

And third. As you gain more and more allies, he sees it as a division in Ferelden. He believes he can defeat the Blight without Wardens, but he must have a unified country. The more you draw support away from him, the more desperate he becomes. And this leads him to making some very poor decisions, even if they seemed necessary to him at the time.

He's doing what he thinks is right, but he's blinded by hatred (of Orlais) and ignorance (of how Blights work), so what he thinks is right is not necessarily right. And it only gets worse when he gets desperate.

Post Limit.
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"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann
#9Duke DarkwoodPosted 4/6/2011 10:57:09 PM
Is all of this enough to exonerate him? No. It is what he did that is on trial, not why he did it. Even a modern court of law would render a verdict of "Guilty".

But, does that mean he deserves death? That's a separate issue. Once guilt has been decided, only then does the issue of sentencing come up. In the earth-equivalent era to Ferelden's culture, he'd be killed, almost certainly. Not just for the actions, but because left alive, he may gain support to try again. But, death is not certain, not if the one doing the judgment understands the motives. For there is always atonement. Redemption.

That is the choice the game gives you. You have the choice to basically say to Loghain "What you did was ten kinds of wrong, but you did it for Ferelden. So, I'm offering you a chance to help us save Ferelden the right way, to make up for doing it the wrong way."

Besides, defeating a Blight is still dangerous work; he could very well still die. But it would be more meaningful to him to die honorably for Ferelden, than to be dishonorably executed for crimes against Ferelden (even if he didn't see them that way, he knows that history would paint him harshly for what he'd done).
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"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann
#10ShinesmanOWPosted 4/6/2011 11:10:12 PM
I only kept Loghain alive once, as a human noble:

1. Warden marries queen.
2. Alistair gets lost.
3. Loghain dies killing archdemon.
4. Morrigan doesn't get her kooky kid.

Just getting rid of the competition. If you want to marry Anora, I'm pretty sure you have to side with Loghain.