This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Battle Frontier Physical Attacker

#1megamaster125Posted 3/3/2012 10:34:03 AM
I'm working on expanding my Battle Frontier pokemon pool (in general), and I noticed that I have a lot of good specially based pokemon (Starmie, Suicune, Latias, Alakazam, Regice, etc.), but my physical pokemon pool is kinda limited right now. I have a mixed Salamence, an agility Metagross (like this guy), a Dugtrio, and I'm working on a Heracross, but I'd like to add something else in here, I just don't know what, and would like some recommendations.

I was considering either a Dragon dance Gyarados or Salamence. My issue with Gyarados is I don't know what other good physical moves I could give him besides Earthquake, so I'm leaning towards a DD Salamence. Do you guys have any other suggestions for physical based pokemon I could add to my pool?
---
There are no contradictions in the Bible. http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/
http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/biblecontradictionsexposed/index.html
#2gbchaosmasterPosted 3/3/2012 10:59:01 AM
CB Aerodactyl works wonders.
---
gbchaosmaster
#3InfiniteCouragePosted 3/3/2012 11:18:54 AM
I'm with you in not being a fan of Gyarados' coverage. Unless you feel like breeding a good hidden power, you're limited to earthquake/return. If only he could've learned aerial ace (Dugtrio and Tyranitar can, but Gyarados can't >_>) Salamence is a little fragile, but he's probably the most dangerous physical attacker if allowed to set up. One DD is enough to sweep most teams, and the AI regularly lets you get a couple.

I'd recommend adamant, max attack and speed, DD/earthquake/AA/brick break. Rock slide's probably better than brick break, but its accuracy sucks for the BF. You lack a power STAB attack, but unless you can import gen 4 outrage, you're out of luck.

For other options, I've never tried Dragonite, but don't see why it couldn't work. Regirock and Snorlax are options if you don't mind slow pokemon. Heracross has the offense, but is a little like Salamence in that he'll go down in one attack more than you'd like, and its hard to switch in. You have to choose between speed and bulk for the most part, but there are happy mediums, namely Metagross.

In general, choice band is a very powerful item in the BF. With three pokemon instead of six, a hit and run kill is a lot bigger deal. In addition, the AI isn't smart enough to switch in a true counter most of the time, even if they have one. You can slap a choice band on any good physical attacker and make minor changes to make it dangerous.

The best choice bander IMO is Slaking, but he can be boring to use, especially if you want to maximize his potential.

Metagross is probably my vote for next best choice bander. Earthquake/meteor mash/explosion are gimmes, and AA is probably the next best, I don't think sludge bomb or shadow ball cover much more, and AA covers double team. Metagross is good in general though, probably best to give the CB to someone else and stick with agiligross.

Stay away from multiple boosting sweepers though, use CBMence and agiligross, or DDMence and CBgross if you're using both.
#4megamaster125(Topic Creator)Posted 3/3/2012 11:51:54 AM
CB Aerodactyl is a good idea. Although, I trained up Dugtrio to have a ground type, as I currently have a lot of levitators and flying types to avoid ground moves, but not so much as far as electric immunities. I could see training one of those up down the road. I have an Aerodactyl in 4th gen, and I've found him to be a bit too fragile and doesn't KO enough stuff.

I don't see dragonite as being much different or better than DD Salamence to be honest. If I ever use dragonite over Salamence, I'll probably be using something close to my old Gold/Silver/Stadium 2 Dragonite from way back when, which was focused on special attacking with Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and Thunder Wave.

Snorlax is another option worth considering, but I always seem to run into the 4 move syndrome really bad with Snorlax.

For multiple boosting sweepers, I generally don't have problems pulling it off. My main 4th gen Battle Frontier team is Swords Dance Scizor, CB Garchomp, and Calm Mind/Toxic Suicune. The Scizor has Aerial Ace, so he can set up swords dances and kill the opponent when they start trying to spam double team. He also has a Lum berry to give me a free turn when someone tries to use status. For Suicune, that thing is just a house. If my opponent is double teaming, if I can land a toxic, then I can just set up calm minds for a sweep. Once this Suicune get's set up, almost nothing can take it down. I like to call it Ubercune, and I've made a replica of it for Emerald.

Suicune @ leftovers
Bold
252 hp/252 def. 6 Sp. Def.
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Calm Mind
-Toxic

For Metagross, I've always found Agilitygross to be better than CB Gross for the Battle Frontier. Give it a Lum Berry, come in on something not threatening, set up an agility, KO the first pokemon. If the next pokemon is nasty, or I'm low on health, explode on it for another KO. Metagross is pretty consisently a 2 for 1 trade, which is a great benefit in a 3 on 3 battle. Multiple boosting pokemon can work, but I would only have 2 pokemon that use boosting moves, all 3 would be too much. (That's why my Salamence is a mixmence right now because I usually pair it with Agilitygross and Ubercune). Ideally, I'd like another good steel type I could use alongside DDMence and Ubercune.
---
There are no contradictions in the Bible. http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/
http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/biblecontradictionsexposed/index.html
#5megamaster125(Topic Creator)Posted 3/3/2012 12:05:50 PM
I generally try to avoid choice band in the 3rd gen frontier though. I usually find that I can ko the first pokemon easily, but then my opponent sends in something where I need to switch moves, but can't due to choice band. It would require multiple switches and usually a lost pokemon to switch attacks with a choice bander. And in a 3 on 3 situation, that could spell doom.

CB Garchomp is about the only thing I use a choice item on in 4th gen battle frontier (there's choice scarf Machamp, but that's a special case), and only because Outrage is phsyical, and dragon is only resisted by steel. Earthquake is great and get's nice coverage, but a choiced earthquake user can be forced to switch out very easily. I generally wouldn't want EQ as the main choice band move.
---
There are no contradictions in the Bible. http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/
http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/biblecontradictionsexposed/index.html
#6InfiniteCouragePosted 3/3/2012 12:21:23 PM
Typo on my part about boosting, I meant two boosting physical sweepers, since you don't really want three physical sweepers, and not using a choice band seems sub optimal. I was assuming your third pokemon was a special sweeper.

Dragonite is inferior to Salamence for all intents and purposes, but he's still useable if you were just looking for options outside the standard Salamence/Metagross/special sweeper team. Honestly, those two and your special sweeper of choice is the best you're gonna get unless you want to use someone else for fun or try messing around with Slaking.

On Aerodactyl, I had the most success with an adamant, CB, rock head/double-edge one. Don't make a Jolly one for the BF, the extra speed is wasted. I'd have to check, but you probably beat most Jolteon without major speed investment anyway. He loses to some threats, but is solid overall.

Its a little surprising that you say you haven't had success with the choice band though. Metagross and Suicune should both be able to switch in pretty well if necessary, and I haven't noticed the AI switching in pokemon that can resist my CB'd attack very often. I think the AI's programmed to switch in an Electabuzz over a Flygon on an Aerodactyl locked into earthquake for example.
#7gbchaosmasterPosted 3/3/2012 2:31:07 PM
Rock slide's probably better than brick break, but its accuracy sucks for the BF.

Rock Slide is for Aerodactyl and Zapdos (and the flinch helps against Skarmory). Brick Break is only useful for Normal types.

Hax will be there no matter what you do. Sacrificing team effectiveness just to try to counter it is wrong.

You lack a power STAB attack, but unless you can import gen 4 outrage, you're out of luck.

Impossible, and Outrage sucks this gen anyway. (besides, it's special, remember?)
---
gbchaosmaster
#8InfiniteCouragePosted 3/3/2012 5:13:26 PM
The outrage comment was an overly wordy way of saying you're out of luck on STAB for DDMence, I know the move sucks this gen :P

Is rock slide a certainty over brick break though? I've always looked at it as personal discretion. Maybe I'm being fooled by the super effective message and the extra base power doesn't help for normals, but I recall a lot of close 2HKOs on Snorlax and Blissey with it. I think brick break OHKOs Aerodactyl after a dragon dance (its at least close,) and Aerodactyl outspeeds and really hurts Salamence if you haven't DDed, so you should switch anyway. According to the pokemon list, only one Aerodactyl beats Metagross on the switch in (two have earthquake, but one will be choice locked into ancientpower.)

Zapdos is annoying, but you don't see many, and most waste their time with thunder wave/rain dance. Snorlax, Blissey and other normals are more common threats. If earthquake doesn't 2HKO, I'd be loath to drop brick break; flying pokemon just don't worry me much.

I admit I'm overly scared of innaccurate moves, but its rough when you can't really afford a miss against the pokemon its on the moveset for. I thought it was 80%, not 90 though, so my fear probably isn't as warranted.
#9megamaster125(Topic Creator)Posted 3/3/2012 7:55:41 PM
I think I'd go for BB over RS on Salamence, because I see a lot of normal types. Aerodactyl and Zapdos can be a pain, but Suicune should be able to handle Aerodactyl easily (at least, it could in the 4th gen frontier). Zapdos is pretty rare, but if I saw it and had my Metagross out, I'd go for the explosion. If I have suicune out and set up with a couple calm minds, I should be able to kill it with Ice Beam.
---
There are no contradictions in the Bible. http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/
http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/biblecontradictionsexposed/index.html
#10PorkiliciousPosted 3/3/2012 10:21:57 PM
Brick Break doesn't score any notable OHKOs/2HKOs outside of Tyranitar over Aerial Ace/EQ on a DD set.