Ace Bonuses

#1ShunWolfkinPosted 6/5/2012 6:07:21 AM
Well no one likely visits this board these days, however, I have one thing to say. And that is the ingame description of Ace bonuses are silly. Lamia and Leona both get accuracy boosted by 10(as well as their shooting/evade). Leona is described as direct hit +10 and Lamia is said to have final hit +10. WTF? If they didn't want to say accuracy + X they could at least have used the same descriptor for the same kind of boost!

So I guess what are the most poorly worded(in-game) ace bonuses you have come across? And I guess to give this thread a bit more purpose what are the best Ace Bonuses in your eyes? Villeta's extra crit and SP sounds good to me, but I have always loved crits. Though the fact that valored attacks can't crit makes me sad.
#2redtide1962Posted 6/5/2012 8:52:16 AM
They aren't the same. I'll help you understand why:


You have both Lamia and Leona attack something that would have a 0% chance to hit (an enemy/mech with extremely high evasion using an attack that has relatively low accuracy) it would be 0% to hit for Leona and 10% for Lamia. This is because Lamia's +10% boost is for final hit, and Leona's is just the base Hit, like what you see on your weapon or add with the various parts (+10/20/30/40% parts). So it is like having +10% hit for that, while Lamia's simply looks at the final chance to hit.

Generally this makes Lamia's boost better because Leona tends to have 100% accuracy against everything in the game anyway. The only time it would be better to have Leona's base accuracy boost is if both you and the enemies you are fighting are relatively low-level and/or have low accuracy/evade stats, therefore making the base stat more valuable than the flat, final stat boost that Lamia has.

I'm not totally sure about this, but if I were to hazard a guess I would say that there is really no situation where the +10 hit is better than +10 final hit, since the "final hit" stacks better with any other way you would boost hit%, which is through parts, natural pilot skills and stats, and better weapons... whereas the +10 hit ace bonus is like having more base accuracy or hit and doesn't stack as well with itself. This doesn't make Leona bad, and she'll be far more accurate than Lamia under most circumstances due to almost everything else that is different between the characters.







Anyway, it's no surprise that some pilots have useless ace bonuses or abilities that wouldn't be as useless in other SRW games, due to things like practically every pilot having any three of Valor, Strike, Alert, and Focus in their kits. Still, the wording is not the problem here -- if you read what the ace bonus is trying to describe and compare it to similar ace bonuses that have different wordings, you can probably figure out the differences between them with just a little thought.
#3redtide1962Posted 6/5/2012 9:19:55 AM
^^ noticing that I ignored your second question, despite loving flavor in SRW topics.. I'll give my opinion on that as well:




1) Ryusei (+10% TK weapon damage)
In general, +final damage abilities make more of a difference than anything else since it isn't made obsolete by abilities like Valor (makes crit useless), Strike (makes accuracy useless), Alert (makes evasion useless), etc. So this ability is the reason why Ryusei deals more damage than Villeta or Mai with the HTB Cannon, and everyone else in the game for that matter. So I think this ace bonus is the best in the game, considering what it does for its user. On the other hand, putting this on someone else would be useless in most cases, since few super-useful attacks are actually TK weapons.

2) Russel (final damage -20% iirc)
This guy is quite the tank, but he's a great support character and if you use him as a primary SR pilot you can just throw him into battle with a large number of defensive (and offensive) supports and he'll take almost no damage due to his high base defense stat, the high armor stat of the mech you put him in, and his ace bonus comes after all of that damage reduction making the damage he'll take extremely small especially if you don't use/waste SP on Guard every turn. This makes his 15 SP Cheer all the more usable as well as his Strike (allowing him to make offensive supports and return fire when he is under fire), and you can also use his 30 SP Rouse without worry since he really doesn't need SP to do his job. To be fair, most of this has nothing to do with his ace bonus, but 20% is a lot even if it is cut from the final amount of damage taken. Putting it on a not-so tanky character would have a much, much greater effect... but might not be as useful.

3) Lune (damage +10%)
This is the kind of ace bonus that would be ideal for most characters if you were to just choose from a list of available ones or something for each character. In her case, it allows her to deal tremendous amounts of damage because her base damage is high and she has two ways of improving her final damage. The ace bonus is +10% and her Lv3 love bonus with Masaki gives her an additional +12% final damage. In this game, +final damage is probably the best stat and Lune gets more than anyone else from her ace bonus, since it works with all weapons (including her MAP) and her stats are well suited to making use of it as a damage-dealer in the three cases you want one to be. Clearing large groups (psyflash), enemy phase cleanup (cross smasher or any long-range weapon you put on her), or as a boss-killing final attack, since I believe she is the strongest or second-strongest offensive support pilot in the game (can use her innate cross smasher or a stronger weapon like the graviton cannon). This ace bonus increases damage more than any other, and it works with her at all stages of a mission's events.














others I could think of

kyosuke (ace bonuses like kyosuke or sangers are basically small stat increases, +10% to melee stat in this case, many pilots have things similar to this but kyosuke also gets a boost for his counter activation, but it is a very small amount and overall this doesn't stand up to Lune's or even Ryusei's ace.

lamia's +final hit lets her have a chance to hit enemies even when it would be 0% otherwise (10% minimum accuracy)

irm's ace gives him the cheapest "Love" spirit in the game. Some people absolutely adore this, but I don't find it necessary in most cases (valor, sometimes strike and/or alert are plenty for me late-game).

gilliam's 15% evade bonus could be really nice on some other pilots, but all it ends up doing is saving SP most of the time, and if we consider which pilot it's on, he is the last one having SP problems... so I don't think his ace is great, although it might... MIGHT be "really nice" on some other character.
#4redtide1962Posted 6/5/2012 9:32:55 AM
sorry for triple post



Aya is quite good, too. It won't look like much, but if you somehow have time to just use Aya, you might find that she's actually extremely powerful and in an extremely versatile mech. With no parts, no favoritism, no upgrades, and really no extra weapons... Aya has one of the largest SP pools and an ace bonus making it even larger, stacking extremely well with her innate abilities. She has TK, Focus skill, and both types of support, and her mech is agile enough that she can evade attacks very well without using Focus (spirit). So her large pool of SP can be used exactly how you want to use it and her ace bonus helps her hit that golden 90-100% accuracy range without using Focus, while simultaneously saving even more on SP costs by giving you a higher maximum pool on a character with an already high max SP and the Focus (skill), and it is hardly, hardly a waste.

Compared to lots of other pilots in regular mechs, they'll need parts and/or upgrades to keep up with her and make her somewhat obsolete. She can support defend, support attack, hit and evade surprisingly well, and her attacks have plenty of range, ammunition, and damage. The only problem is that you can't use her and the SRX at the same time. Which brings me to my final, long-winded point about Aya: her ace bonus isn't useless once you form the SRX because Ryusei (and your entire team) obviously benefit from having Aya with an even larger pool of SP, because almost any other ace bonus would be lost upon transformation since she is not the dominant pilot.
#5red255Posted 6/5/2012 10:13:46 AM
Russel was imbalancedly good in SRW OG1.

In OG2 Defense is less viable than dodge so he is only really good. and needs a few things for support, mainly G Territory....and probably sit him next to the hiryu kai.
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#6ShunWolfkin(Topic Creator)Posted 6/7/2012 5:34:26 AM
Aha, I hadn't realized that the effects were different when it came to direct hit and final hit. I was confused with those and looked up the faq which just listed them both as '+10% accuracy'.

Makes a lot more sense now that you described it(and certainly has me preferring Lamia's ace to Leona's).



And when it comes to spirits. I tend not to use them much. I find myself doing so in this one far more than in J(where I probably used gain/cheer/bless/luck far more often the all the rest combined). It tends to be how I play games. I don't use spells and save them for only the most dire of situations. However, in OG2 I found myself relying on them a lot more in the beginning. However, it does irritate me so I really don't mind Ace Bonuses that let me go back to my no spirit use(except for support spirits on kills).

Anyways in general I do prefer damage boosting aces, this includes crits since I only rarely use valor(bosses only generally) and it isn't uncommon so far for me to end up having enemies survive with only a couple hundred(or even a less than a hundred) hit points. The pilots who crit a lot for me don't have that problem. So I do like my crits(boy do I miss J's Fury which game you crits for a whole turn!), now if only you could crit on a valor'ed hit!


I so wanted to love Russel but I just haven't found too solid of a use of him yet. Then again it might be the fact that I tend to just toss him in whatever I have left over(Bullet's MKII being the one he is as of mission 30. . . I upgraded it a bit for bullet so it has more armor and HP than most of my 'leftovers' and it has that G-Shield thing. Still feels underwhelming though. But with people like Bullet and Kusuha and their mechanoid running amok that is not too surprising I guess) :/.
#7crunchy612Posted 6/7/2012 6:17:34 AM
Too bad Lat's Ace Bonus is crap. She was Russel's equivalent in Dodge in OG1.
Her Fairlion is badass for such a cute mech though. RHB and Shine can rot in hell; G-Impact Stake ftw.
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#8redtide1962Posted 6/8/2012 4:18:34 PM
It's probably a really good habit you have to not waste spirits. It's true that in OG2 (or even OG1) you kind of can more liberally use spirits on your pilots (like using focus a few turns in a row, knowing full-well that you only need that pilot to handle a few turns worth of combat), but overall for these games it is incredibly effective but also helpful to learn what your mechs are capable of without relying on spirits for everything.


This translates into upgrades and parts as well, and I'm glad I'm not the only one deciding that the G-Impact Stake works well on the Fairlion. In my current playthrough, I am working on an Ex-Hard no-upgrade challenge where I still get every battle mastery, and it seems like both Latooni and Shine can handle more than their share of work with just that weapon added to their list. I remember thinking that shine was terrible or useless, but if you're saving SP anyway she's perfectly safe just sending her in to battle... even...

without upgrades
without luxurious parts
without using SP
and without her ace bonus of course.










There is one thing I can say about critical hits though. This is something that is relevant to my latest playthrough since there are a few battle masteries where you have to deal a large amount of damage with a single action to defeat an otherwise retreating enemy. Obviously you would use your strongest attack with Valor and you would also want to stack stat-boosting ace+love bonuses if possible, but the main help is having a really, really strong offensive support that gets a critical hit. Since you cannot Valor a support attack, getting a critical hit is really the only thing you can do to improve its damage outside of upgrading weapons or character levels/stats/skills.
#9RintashaPosted 6/8/2012 5:06:34 PM
Another thing that should be mentioned is that terrain needs to be taken into account. Leona's Ace skill I believe becomes nerfed as opposed to Lamia's Ace skill.

On a side note, if your really just bored, go level your characters to level 99, its extremely easy even with getting all the battle masterys.
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#10DemiseEndPosted 6/17/2012 6:43:14 AM
Best Aces :

Kyosuke :
Sanger's Ace is absurdly good. Kyo's Ace are Sanger's but better. Do the math

Ryusei :
In a mecha where most of the weapon are, well.... TK

Irm :
45 SP Love, Boy i cant even began where to start about how good this really is. Hard unit ? Love. Boss ? Love. Morale ? Love. And with proper stuff he wont run out of SP. Really good ACE
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