Be Wary- Skill Point Change

#1tigros40208Posted 1/21/2010 11:00:27 AM
One of the drawing factors to this game was you could continue to earn skillpoints even after hitting 50. This was one of the big draws to me, espically when I found out that you can only have 2 character slots, 3 when ya hit lt com. Having more skillpoints didnt great you more uber abilities. It really just let you expand the options your character could have. If you got tired with escorts could start playing around with a cruiser or science vessel without any kind of penalty. Would just have to earn more points to level up the base attributes for it. Want to switch from phasers to disruptors? No problem just earn some more points and mount some new weapons.

Well that is all changed now. For "balance concerns" now skillpoints cap out once you hit 50. And there is no respec in the game right now though its "in the pipe."

Anyone who played Champions Online know how badly powers got smacked around at launch and how long you were stuck with them because the respec was completely screwed up,
#2LittlicaPosted 1/21/2010 12:34:39 PM
That is annoying news!
#3theneomatrixPosted 1/21/2010 2:38:46 PM
it is suddenly like CO, where is it easier and 'better' to cap and charge real cash for respecs.

force people down a set path and when they want to change... blamo.

---
Woah, PS2 is cool, wait - is that a car amp...hook it up maaaaannnn
#4ZorlacPosted 1/21/2010 3:15:07 PM
You only have two character slots because this is a BETA.
---
And The Vampire was all that remained on
the blood drowned creation. WoW Server-Feathermoon-IGN-Razzil. Xfire-Zorlac666.
#5theneomatrixPosted 1/21/2010 3:36:56 PM
wrong.

devs said it is 2 normal 1 more at klingon unlock... lifetime/pre gets the additional 2
---
Woah, PS2 is cool, wait - is that a car amp...hook it up maaaaannnn
#6Cyber_PyroPosted 1/21/2010 6:17:31 PM
You can count on 2 more for everyone when they release Romulan & Cardassian factions though. With 3 basic types of ships, that sounds like enough to me.
#7darkjedilinkPosted 1/21/2010 6:24:22 PM
Yeah, because PvE balance concerns aren't a worthwhile issue in an MMO, right?

Guys, don't let the troll OP fool you, it actually makes sense. Without a skill cap, at max level you could max out all of your skills eventually, and that's fine. However, should they raise the skill cap, like in an expansion, you'd have already spent enough skill points to hit the new cap, and then all of the new content, up until the new endgame, would be meant for someone of a lower level than what most of the community will be.

Tell me that wouldn't cause problems.

---
It sure would be fun to be Kirk. I'd Judo chop and ask questions later.
Wind Fish in name only, for it is neither.
#8kiaghi7Posted 1/21/2010 7:13:14 PM
"Yeah, because PvE balance concerns aren't a worthwhile issue in an MMO, right?

Guys, don't let the troll OP fool you, it actually makes sense. Without a skill cap, at max level you could max out all of your skills eventually, and that's fine. However, should they raise the skill cap, like in an expansion, you'd have already spent enough skill points to hit the new cap, and then all of the new content, up until the new endgame, would be meant for someone of a lower level than what most of the community will be.

Tell me that wouldn't cause problems."

Just like I told you on the official boards, no it would not cause problems... But just like on the official boards you ignored the reasoning just like Cryptic/Atari are choosing to.


First off, everyone having completely equal and free form ability to advance their character has IDENTICAL ability to achieve any and all of the same things. Period. That is de facto balance because nobody can do anything that everybody else can't do just as well. So your argument of unbalanced anything is right out the window on word one.

Second, the "instant max level" if the level cap is to be raised is a straw man thrown out by people who don't understand that three minutes of adding a Boolean to the SP earning scheme could fix the problem before it could even become one. Once any player achieves the maximum number of SP necessary to top off all skills, SP would stop accumulating. Just like XP stops accumulating in WOW when when you reached max level... THREE times now... Not one person was "max level" by virtue of banked up XP they had earned up and received all at once on day one.

Your entire argument is based on false assumptions and the nonsense propaganda being put forth by apologists like StormShade, who's own address of the concerns was laced with nonsense and out right lies.

By all means, answer the following, in the context of either PvP or PvE, I would delight in hearing your answer:

How in any way is it going to be unbalancing to the game for a player to have the ability to pilot an Escort while he is in a Cruiser?

How in any way is being a master of disruptors going to effect your use of phasers?


The entire game, as you should darn well know, has been under development all this time precisely with the idea that with sufficient effort you can have any skill you want, and it is quite literally built around this idea and mechanic. There is absolutely no logical argument you can make to explain away the completely asinine move Cryptic/Atari is making under the supposed guise of "balance" when what they are doing is precisely the opposite of balancing the game.

When everyone has identical potential advancement, they also have identical potential capability, and there is absolutely no way limiting a player's options is going to enhance balance, and if anything only detract from it.

This entire scenario is of course SNAFU, but only because Cryptic/Atari insist upon fixing that which wasn't broken to begin with. The player base have every right to be furious as well, they are trying to enforce some sort of impotent class mechanism in STO which is a debacle from word one. There are three choices, and at the end of the day it's going to be the popular choice to go escort for DPS and grinding up to max level.

Once there some may respec to Cruiser or Science, but with respawn being short, distances being covered fairly quickly, and the combat itself being fairly fast paced, healing isn't a particular appealing job, and tanking seems like a suicide mission... What's more, the skill set each class could draw upon is now going to be castrated into an utterly ridiculously narrow path, to no one's benefit and to everyone's detriment.
---
The difference between being ignorant and being enlightened is choosing not to be the other.
#9DarkProdigyXPosted 1/22/2010 12:16:09 AM
Call me crazy, or unenlightened, or whatever you will, but i prefer games that dont allow you to max everything. It creates some consistency in how you play your character, and gives a sense of accomplishment if/when you are known for something specific. If everyone could max everything then any sense of identity from your current "spec" is lost.

None of this is fact, this is just my opinion. So from me, kudos to Cryptic for letting us keep some semblance of identity. Being able to buy all the ship types was bad enough.
#10HappyHappyJoyJoyPosted 1/22/2010 1:14:47 AM

From: tigros40208 | #001
...once you hit 50.


The level cap is reduced to 45 (Admiral/5).

From: Cyber_Pyro | #006
You can count on 2 more for everyone when they release Romulan & Cardassian factions though. With 3 basic types of ships, that sounds like enough to me.


When they released the Celestial powerset in CO they didn't give everyone a free character slot to take advantage of it... so don't bank on it.

By the way, CO has sorted out it's launch issues. It's pretty decent these days and to anyone who was interested but got turned off by bad release press I'd recommend looking into trying it out.

From: darkjedilink | #007
Guys, don't let the troll OP fool you, it actually makes sense. Without a skill cap, at max level you could max out all of your skills eventually, and that's fine. However, should they raise the skill cap, like in an expansion, you'd have already spent enough skill points to hit the new cap, and then all of the new content, up until the new endgame, would be meant for someone of a lower level than what most of the community will be.


There are several ways around this though.

And of course, if they are worried about content being levelled below players, we can do random missions to level/skill cap then complete the entire game at Admiral/5 if we want. There is nothing to prevent that even with a skill cap. And of course, if this is a major concern it suggests the addition of no lower level content in the future (as players would be levelled beyond it) and no end game content appropriate for those who level quickly to take advantage of.

From: DarkProdigyX | #009
Call me crazy, or unenlightened, or whatever you will, but i prefer games that dont allow you to max everything.


If the skill tree were designed for this it would make sense, but it's filled with abilities whose function is made obsolete or redundant, and that doesn't work with capping. Also, most of the skills are mutually exclusive so you can't make an "uber character." You don't get more powerful, just broader, and your "class" becomes defined by your career path, equipped kit, ship, equipment, Bridge Officers, Bridge Officer skills, and how the Bridge Officers are slotted into your ship.

Keep in mind that investing in skills does NOT get you new abilities. Every Engineer gets ALL Engineer abilities, every Science Officer gets ALL Science Officer abilities and every Tactical Officer gets ALL Tactical Officer abilities, skill cap or not. All the skills effect is how well you can take advantage of them, and how many ships you can Captain effectively. It doesn't give you more options, just decides how effective you will be with those options. So regardless of skills you won't be doing anything that any other Officer of similar type can't do.

Part of me is wondering (hoping) that they've just locked out the unlimited skill points with the last five levels of Admiral and they're doing this to keep players away from their end game content, which still requires time. Though this likely is just a pipe dream...

---
Whatever...