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[STICKY] Post-Chaos Training Spot Guide

#31EvilMewtwoPosted 8/2/2011 1:28:29 PMmessage detail
End_of_Day posted...
I added that BW is better than Crockys and that you should explore the possibility of training there as soon as possible within the guide. I also meant to err on at least the safe side about the max ranges. Players with a max range of 18k should definitely be at BW. If anything, you might have asked me to lower the 15k max range for Crockys earlier if you think it's too high. The max range section is supposed to be vague, but at least within reason.

I'll concede that I didn't account for each classes' individual skills for the LHC guide. By using damage range as a criterion for where/when to train and not level, the roles of each classes' skills are severely downplayed as said skills are the direct result of leveling. I hope you understand that if I were to explore the level criterion, I would have to go into the skills that justify going at that level, and it was never my intention to go that in-depth. I figured that by 4th job +, people would know how to play their own classes better than I could tell all of them, so I ran a very general route.

If you have any further issues with my little LHC section, you're free to come forward with them. I wish we would have done this sooner, but if it helps the guide I don't mind us hashing it out here.

Mewtwo, I hope you'll consider yourself exempt from the conversations regarding LHC. I hope you understand that it would be difficult for you to try to defend my points without proper reasoning. You're also still welcome to ignore saLUEtes as his contest for my section of the guide comes largely from misinterpretation (forgivable because it is vague) and flat ignorance (not so forgivable). He's trying to challenge you to defend my points when he knows you can't.


I know eh, that's what I was thinking. He's looking at the post you made about LHC and asking me to explain it. I didn't modify that section you wrote because I figured I don't know enough about LHC. Now Sal's telling me I should have somehow written it better, because the info is wrong. >_> Had I modified it, he'd be mad at me for changing info given to me by an experienced LHCer. When I didn't modify it, he got mad at me for having incorrect info (and postured that my ability to quote other users makes me a bad guide writer).

>_>

I'm determined not to let this thread become another argument, no matter how much Sal ignores posters who "spam" him with a whole 1 PM just so he doesn't have to deal with logic.
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[NightReigns 10x Hermit] [Elementaiizt 106 Dragon Knight]
gMS Khaini -=-=-=-=- Currently leveling: NightReigns
#32saLUEtesPosted 8/2/2011 7:45:40 PMmessage detail
No no, just evidences why (as I've said all along, and gradually every high level is agreeing with me) someone who has never said foot in LHC should be trying to write a guide on it.
Yes, you're going to try and pass on responsibility and claim that you had nothing to do with the section (except you published it, so you did). Had you been experienced, you probably would have picked up on the inadequacies of the LHC section and not included it. However since you didn't, I believe it ruins the credibility of the guide as a whole (which is a shame, since I'm sure you're more than qualified to write the 1 - 105 part).

I truly believe the right thing for you to do in order to salvage this guide is to petition a moderator to remove the LHC section and rename this as a 1 - 105 guide, since as it stands, the whole thing is tainted by that flawed section.
Had I had my way, a player who has experienced all the areas they are promoting (hell, even someone with a single 4th job character would have been better) would have written the guide. It's too late for that however, so I think we should all do what we can to salvage what's there.
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One of the rational heads of the MapleStory board
Logic, Fairness and Impartiality
#33EvilMewtwoPosted 8/2/2011 7:50:07 PMmessage detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#34End_of_DayPosted 8/2/2011 8:27:49 PMmessage detail
I wasn't going to claim any credit for the section of the guide I wrote but if you need some explanation of it, I'll claim that responsibility. It only makes sense that I be the one to explain the section that I wrote. I believe I've already explained or justified my defense of it; I even explored its limitations. If anyone else needs any further explanation of the LHC section, I'm open to questioning. If sal wants to discuss this further, he'll have to stop ignoring me first.

Mewtwo, it's up to sal whether he ignores me or not. Please don't quote my words for his benefit, as it doesn't serve to get the point across to him anyway. While the discussion of the guide at the moment is on the LHC section, I appreciate you sitting out of the conversation. At least no one's got beef with the part you wrote. =P
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Currently listening: Adele - Someone Like You
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#35azn_riza_000Posted 8/2/2011 9:51:34 PMmessage detail
Warriors will always deal more damage against a mob of 3-4 than they will against a mob of 1-2.

Just noticed this. . . . where did you come up with this factoid from? Paladin's Blast says hi.
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Windia~SatomiOrders~17X Paladin~
#36End_of_DayPosted 8/2/2011 10:31:49 PMmessage detail
Hi, Blast. Sorry, I wasn't thinking of you when I said that. The statement holds true for Intrepid Slash & Dragon Buster. I used that statement as an example of general mob control. Paladins with Blast are an exception to it. As stated previously, I trust people who've advanced beyond 120 to know their skills better than I cared to explain.

Granted Blast is an exception, I hope it doesn't detract from the principle of mob control. After all, that was the main point.
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Currently listening: Adele - Someone Like You
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#37gamesage53Posted 8/3/2011 10:13:12 PMmessage detail
It probably would have been easier for people to notice things like that without all of the arguing over the (3?) different drafts. But at least people are noticing now and questioning/clarifying things. LHC is definitely not the easiest place to write a guide on due to all of the different factors (party members, damage range for each member, Holy Symbol, etc). I do appreciate that you tried to write a section for it. There are definitely exceptions to general guides. It's just something people need to figure out. Not trying to start anything here, but Sal should have corrected errors in the LHC part since a 4th jobber wrote it, or tried to write that section himself. Copying that section word for word from what someone else wrote definitely exempts you from being responsible for it since all that can really be given on it are general rules and it seems like most people agreed with that section. Though if Sal wants to make his own LHC leveling guide, he can do that and get it stickied as well so we would have a leveling guide and a separate LHC guide. Thoughts, Sal? Again, not trying to start any trouble. It makes sense
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MapleStory -> Bellocan -> MudkipLiker0 (120 Aran), BahamutEXA (61 Evan), gamesageUA (84 Gunslinger), all others are retired...for now
#38saLUEtesPosted 8/4/2011 4:50:02 PMmessage detail
gamesage53 posted...
Copying that section word for word from what someone else wrote definitely exempts you from being responsible for it

A huge no on this.
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One of the rational heads of the MapleStory board
Logic, Fairness and Impartiality
#39EvilMewtwoPosted 8/4/2011 8:07:27 PMmessage detail
saLUEtes posted...
gamesage53 posted...
Copying that section word for word from what someone else wrote definitely exempts you from being responsible for it

A huge no on this.


ITP: Let's blame the guy I think is a stupid doo doo head, even though he just trusted someone with experience as Grand Master Sallaama requested!
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[NightReigns 10x Hermit] [Elementaiizt 106 Dragon Knight]
gMS Khaini -=-=-=-=- Currently leveling: NightReigns
#40End_of_DayPosted 8/4/2011 9:16:03 PMmessage detail(edited)
This is just a reminder for everyone to stay on topic. I appreciate it, but I nor the section of the guide I wrote need any further defense.

Sage, the fact that Mewtwo copied my words directly does not completely exempt him from the responsibility of having posted it. Sal's "huge no" lacks explicit justification of his denial, but I could provide that for you: Mewtwo posted it, and is therefore responsible as far as explaining that he trusted me as a reliable source. Beyond that, I assume responsibility for explaining the LHC guide as its author and as the Mewtwo put his trust into for that section. However you or sal want to weight that is up to you guys.

TL;DR Mewtwo is obligated to explain his inclusion of the LHC guide about as far as saying "Ask End_of_Day."

With that having been said, Mewtwo, your comment rings of a mocking tone and it doesn't speak well of you. However fitting you might find it for sal, I think you would agree this isn't the proper place for it.

Once again, if anyone has questions or comments relevant to the LHC guide, I would be happy to address them.
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Currently listening: Adele - Someone Like You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njwvIPJlPN0&feature=related