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Series that killed their own legacy this generation.

#211SinfullyvannilaPosted 11/29/2012 6:58:03 AM
SunDevil77 posted...
Sinful, it's mitch. He is always wrong. GameFAQs law says so, I heard they are even considering putting it in the ToS.


Ah, well, at least I proved it with that link.
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Polite conversation should never include Politics, Religion or what constitutes an RPG.
Playing a game for it's story is like watching porn for it's story.
#212pothocketPosted 11/29/2012 7:04:23 AM
Perfect Light posted...
Mass Effect 3 was nowhere near as good as the developers promised it would be. Everything felt flat and uninteresting, nowhere near as good as Mass Effect 1 and 2 were. Even ignoring the horrendous ending, the game itself was nowhere near as gripping as the first two games.


Dude...just, come on.

Spoilers





The game resolved all those different story arcs before the ending. The fate of the Krogans and all the stuff with Tali and Legion, it was anything but flat. Everything up till the return to Earth was great. Hell, I even loved the co-op. My melee Geth Infiltrator build was epic. Guns and shields are for scrubs.
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well I am not like your dad. I worked as a chef at TGIF-Mattson
#213TrugamerPosted 11/29/2012 7:21:14 AM
Star Wars (games)

I could write a mini novel about this failure
#214Perfect LightPosted 11/29/2012 7:50:53 AM
pothocket posted...
Dude...just, come on.

The game resolved all those different story arcs before the ending. The fate of the Krogans and all the stuff with Tali and Legion, it was anything but flat. Everything up till the return to Earth was great. Hell, I even loved the co-op. My melee Geth Infiltrator build was epic. Guns and shields are for scrubs.

I'm talking about the overall feel of ME3. From the very beginning I knew something was off. They skipped over Shepard's entire trial because they said people would think it was too "boring." It would have been anything but boring, it would have added some tension and drama to the first act of the story.

Not only that, but the Reapers invaded within the first 20 minutes, which means everything after that felt silly because you were either rushing to get things done or sitting around drinking or dancing in a club while millions of people die each day back on Earth. They should have saved the Reaper invasion for closer to the end, which would give more time for the player to not feel rushed through the entire game.

My third gripe is the Prothean DLC. I got it for free because I got the collector's edition, but my buddy had to get the regular version because they were out of CEs by the time he had the money to pre-order, which was only days before the game launched. After playing the game, From Ashes was pretty integral to the plot, there was no reason it needed to be separate from the main game.

My biggest gripe with ME3 in comparison to the other games, was that I never felt like the final battle ever came to anything or that my War Assets ever showed themselves. We spent the entire game collecting these assets to strengthen our military might, and we never get a cutscene showing those assets. We got a few seconds of two or three of the same races that will always be present during the final confrontation saying they're ready, and then you spend the rest of the time with Shepard.

You hardly see any of the destruction the Reapers are causing or spend any time with the war assets. It felt so detached, I wanted to see turians and quarians charging into battle together, with the hanar shooting their back-mounted cannons, stomping behind the ground soldiers with aircraft rocketing overhead, blasting at the enemies on the planet while in space, the ships begin the battle with the entire fleet of Reapers, everyone blasting and shooting. I wanted to see that, as I'm sure a lot of other people did.

Not to mention the ending, which was pure disappointment and the exact opposite of what BioWare promised it would be. I am a published author, but it doesn't take an author to see the ending for the narrative mess it is. Nothing is explained, too much is left to the player's imagination. Before the Extended Cut, we didn't know what had happened and BioWare knew they ****ed up because they fixed it for free.

Mass Effect 2 had middle child syndrome, but it was a much more personal story with Shepard bopping around the galaxy looking for soldiers to bring together. Then, in ME3 pretty much all the people you spent the entire second game getting vanished to do their own thing. What?! Why did we spend an entire game wasting our time? It was baffling to me some of the decisions they made.
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#215LostNPhoundPosted 11/29/2012 8:45:07 AM
People the topic says this generation. Mass effect doesn't qualify for the point of the topic
#216mtjormitchPosted 11/29/2012 12:47:15 PM
Sinfullyvannila posted...
Necronmon posted...
To Sinful, I see you never played Xenogears or Saga, because those three you mentioned are far from the best stories in my eyes, they are up there but not the best.


I played XG back in the day. It's story had a lot going for it, but the pacing was atrocious. Also it was very poorly integrated with gameplay. Dat second disc...

Note, I said storytelling and not just stories.

That's usually the big problems with stories in story-based games. Especially the mid-90s ones. They don't integrate the story with the gameplay well. So you get big chunks of gameplay followed by small(or big in MGS and XS' case) chunks of story and the pacing suffers terribly.

FPS' and some platformers(Braid comes to mind, I never played all the way through braid though, I should do that some day) have been getting a lot better at the integration thing, but usually those genres don't have very interesting stories.


Storytelling doesn't matter. If Lord of the Rings can still be remembered even though the storytelling in that is HORRIBLE then any video game can be a classic as well. Storytelling doesn't matter at all. Just the quality of the stories themselves. Judging by how games have evolved over the last few years. They have beaten practically every medium BUT books in terms of quality anymore.
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People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#217mtjormitchPosted 11/29/2012 12:50:47 PM
Sinfullyvannila posted...
...did you really go there with that dumbass comment at the beginning. It voids your opinion entirely because of how inhumanly moronic and ignorant it truly is. It is a comment that deserves to die and for people to be banned over in video game websites. It is 100% ignorant and I will and shall not respect a human being who uses such a terrible statement it is.

Yes. That statement is that moronic and you should feel ashamed for proving your horrible untrue opinion that insults video games as a whole. Get out of this site. You sicken me.

Also only three... oh... so the past 20 years of amazing games with amazing stories=nothing then? Get out of my sight.

Planetscape torment is still better than 99% of games made today though.


Well, I've read a lot of novels, and I've played a lot of video games, and the best story-based video game stories I've played only begin to approach a mediocre novel that's made for an adult.

And for the record, I've been playing story based games all my life. I played pretty much every Square and Enix game, Black Isle, Obsidian, Bioware(only played the first Mass Effect and Dragon Age though).

And Torment is one of the most boring games I've ever played. I started that game up 6 times, and I can only get up to about the Catacombs under Pharod's little shanty town before I quit out of sheer boredom. And this was back when I was in the same "ZOMG videogames with stories r da best" phase that you are in. I don't understand how a developer who had so much experience with the AD&D rules could make a game that went so far against what made AD&D fun.

Why have fun with something mindless when you can have fun with something that is actually stimulating? Oh yeah... gamers are morons. Much like you yourself proved with that terrible statement. YOU CAN HAVE FUN WITH A STORY BASED GAME! Oh wait... I forgot, gamers are to much of morons to get this fact as well as the one which gameplay only games are just a waste of time. Why play tetris when I can play Bioshock? Seriously? Why play a timewasting piece of junk when I can play a modern classic?

No one has been able to go against this argument. At all.


You can have fun with a story-based game. I don't think anyone said otherwise. The problem is, most story-based games are so focused on their stories, that they neglect making their game as fun as they can be. See my Torment example. Everyone praises it's story, but have you ever heard anyone praise it's gameplay relative to Baldur's Gate 2 or the Icewind Dale games?

Also, games without stories can be very stimulating. It's funny that you mention Tetris, because that specific game was focused on a study of that very subject:

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/09/01/is.tetris.good.brain

And really, Bioshock is just as much of a waste of time as Tetris. It's all a matter of how much you enjoy it. No need to insult Tetris fans who are thickening their cortex :P


So the reason you hate video games is because they bore you and that story is not fun in and of itself for you? Huh... stop the presses. We got a book burner here. Gameplay has nowhere else to evolve and denying that is true stupidity. You can make a fun video game quite easily nowadays. But making that game worthwhile to play with a great story is far more important than just making tetris over an over again. Also, do that brain test on Bioshock and it would probably be far more healthy than Tetris. Just they didn't try to do that.

Gameplay is nothing more than a addiction retro gamers cling onto to prevent a growing medium from achieving excellence. You are proving this more and more.
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People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#218SinfullyvannilaPosted 11/29/2012 2:58:32 PM(edited)
Storytelling doesn't matter. If Lord of the Rings can still be remembered even though the storytelling in that is HORRIBLE then any video game can be a classic as well. Storytelling doesn't matter at all. Just the quality of the stories themselves. Judging by how games have evolved over the last few years. They have beaten practically every medium BUT books in terms of quality anymore.



You can't have a good story without good storytelling. Otherwise, it's just a mess of characters and events, and it's usually very derivative, no matter the medium. It's like a comedian telling a joke with poor timing and weak framing, no matter how good the joke is, nobody is going to laugh.

So the reason you hate video games is because they bore you and that story is not fun in and of itself for you? Huh... stop the presses. We got a book burner here. Gameplay has nowhere else to evolve and denying that is true stupidity. You can make a fun video game quite easily nowadays. But making that game worthwhile to play with a great story is far more important than just making tetris over an over again. Also, do that brain test on Bioshock and it would probably be far more healthy than Tetris. Just they didn't try to do that.

Gameplay is nothing more than a addiction retro gamers cling onto to prevent a growing medium from achieving excellence. You are proving this more and more.


I love videogames. I don't know why you'd think I hate them. I just hate boring videogames with bad gameplay. I love videogames with good stories and would love to see more of them. The problem is, the vast majority of games don't have good stories, and the ones with the better stories(which still really aren't very good stories in general) tend to focus on that and don't really care about making the game fun.

And I really doubt that Bioshock would get nearly as beneficial results as Tetris. The study involved playing the game for 30 minutes a day for 90 days. That's 45 hours of gameplay. Tetris has tons of replayability. The levels keep getting more and more challenging, and the tetrominoes are determined randomly. 45 hours of Bioshock would mean beating the game at least 4 times. How stimulating do you think that would be? The only time the story changes is at the ending, and there's only 2 of those, so it would just be pretty much the same game every time. The brain develops with new experiences, not rote repetition.

I'm wondering, if you don't care about gameplay, why don't you just read books?

TL,DR: If I want to have fun, I'll play a videogame. If I want an interesting story, I'll read a book.
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Polite conversation should never include Politics, Religion or what constitutes an RPG.
Playing a game for it's story is like watching porn for it's story.
#219Aqua69696Posted 11/29/2012 3:21:15 PM
Oy, mitch heres something to argue over.

Story
Books>Film>Video Games

Gameplay
Video Games>>>>Books=Films

So as you can see, gameplay is fifty times more important than story, because simply, a game is the only medium through which gameplay can be done. That's why people buy them. Because they're video games.

Whereas if you want a story, you read a book. There's better pacing, there's better dialogue. You can read about what characters are thinking, you can switch characters much more smoothly if necessary.

If you want great visuals, good acting and effortless storytelling (as in, you just need to sit and look, not like playing a game or reading a book which require small amounts of concentration/hand movement) you watch a movie.

And they didn't do the test with Bioshock because it was obvious that Bioshock would do **** all for your brain. Tetris builds brain power due to making you solve numerous puzzles quickly in rapid succession.
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Watch it pass the day As it fades away No more time to care No more time Today
#220mtjormitchPosted 11/29/2012 4:01:01 PM
Sinfullyvannila posted...
Storytelling doesn't matter. If Lord of the Rings can still be remembered even though the storytelling in that is HORRIBLE then any video game can be a classic as well. Storytelling doesn't matter at all. Just the quality of the stories themselves. Judging by how games have evolved over the last few years. They have beaten practically every medium BUT books in terms of quality anymore.



You can't have a good story without good storytelling. Otherwise, it's just a mess of characters and events, and it's usually very derivative, no matter the medium. It's like a comedian telling a joke with poor timing and weak framing, no matter how good the joke is, nobody is going to laugh.

So the reason you hate video games is because they bore you and that story is not fun in and of itself for you? Huh... stop the presses. We got a book burner here. Gameplay has nowhere else to evolve and denying that is true stupidity. You can make a fun video game quite easily nowadays. But making that game worthwhile to play with a great story is far more important than just making tetris over an over again. Also, do that brain test on Bioshock and it would probably be far more healthy than Tetris. Just they didn't try to do that.

Gameplay is nothing more than a addiction retro gamers cling onto to prevent a growing medium from achieving excellence. You are proving this more and more.


I love videogames. I don't know why you'd think I hate them. I just hate boring videogames with bad gameplay. I love videogames with good stories and would love to see more of them. The problem is, the vast majority of games don't have good stories, and the ones with the better stories(which still really aren't very good stories in general) tend to focus on that and don't really care about making the game fun.

And I really doubt that Bioshock would get nearly as beneficial results as Tetris. The study involved playing the game for 30 minutes a day for 90 days. That's 45 hours of gameplay. Tetris has tons of replayability. The levels keep getting more and more challenging, and the tetrominoes are determined randomly. 45 hours of Bioshock would mean beating the game at least 4 times. How stimulating do you think that would be? The only time the story changes is at the ending, and there's only 2 of those, so it would just be pretty much the same game every time. The brain develops with new experiences, not rote repetition.

I'm wondering, if you don't care about gameplay, why don't you just read books?

TL,DR: If I want to have fun, I'll play a videogame. If I want an interesting story, I'll read a book.


Yet many movies, books, video games, comic books and stories in general that are poorly told remain classics to this day. Storytelling means jack crap in the long run. Quality of the story is far more important than how you tell that story.

Also the word fun should be bannable IMO. Fun is so subjective that it should never be used. I don't find mindless time wastes fun. I find story based video games to be much more fun. See how subjective it can get? Oh wait, you hate story based video games obviously.

They are better and have been proven to be better that gameplay only messes that only waste my time and everyone elses and going against that is foolish beyond belief.
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People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.