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Series that killed their own legacy this generation.

#221no1oblivionfanPosted 11/29/2012 5:03:42 PM
Mass Effect 3

Dragon Age II

Congratulations Bioware on ruining my top two games.
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Steam: An_Orang3e
#222mtjormitchPosted 11/29/2012 5:08:19 PM
Aqua69696 posted...
Oy, mitch heres something to argue over.

Story
Books>Film>Video Games

Gameplay
Video Games>>>>Books=Films

So as you can see, gameplay is fifty times more important than story, because simply, a game is the only medium through which gameplay can be done. That's why people buy them. Because they're video games.

Whereas if you want a story, you read a book. There's better pacing, there's better dialogue. You can read about what characters are thinking, you can switch characters much more smoothly if necessary.

If you want great visuals, good acting and effortless storytelling (as in, you just need to sit and look, not like playing a game or reading a book which require small amounts of concentration/hand movement) you watch a movie.

And they didn't do the test with Bioshock because it was obvious that Bioshock would do **** all for your brain. Tetris builds brain power due to making you solve numerous puzzles quickly in rapid succession.


It is more Books=video games>>>>>>>>>>>>>>comic books>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Movies.

That is way more realistic if you actually take a look at the video games as a medium for telling stories. They just do it better than movies anymore.

Also, the fact that you are doing the "If I wanted a story I could read a book" Thing. That automatically makes me ******* hate you with all of my being. It is the more ignorant and the dumbest statement made in the entirety of video games. That is how ******* moronic it is. It insults video games entirely. So video games can't tell stories? Go bleep yourself. Seriously. The sheer fact that they keep making story based games keeps proving you retrodrones wrong. Story is far more important than gameplay anymore. Not because gameplay is bad but because story is and always will be more important. Not just in video games, but movies, Books, TV shows and comic books. That is a fact that if yo don't accept than you are going to hate the next generation of video games as they keep maturing our of your obvious low age story attentive capabilities.

Visuals... um... yeah... when video games look better than CGI only movies anymore you know for a fact that video games are lesser! wait... wut...

Do you see how moronic that is you retrodrone?

Also, the fact that they didn't test Bioshock proves something else to. This arguement about tetris being good for you is bullcrap. Heck, the tetris effect is more or less a condition which in and of itself proves that Tetris is more harming than good.
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People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#223UnderratedGamerPosted 11/29/2012 6:09:18 PM
mtjormitch posted...
Sinfullyvannila posted...
Necronmon posted...
To Sinful, I see you never played Xenogears or Saga, because those three you mentioned are far from the best stories in my eyes, they are up there but not the best.


I played XG back in the day. It's story had a lot going for it, but the pacing was atrocious. Also it was very poorly integrated with gameplay. Dat second disc...

Note, I said storytelling and not just stories.

That's usually the big problems with stories in story-based games. Especially the mid-90s ones. They don't integrate the story with the gameplay well. So you get big chunks of gameplay followed by small(or big in MGS and XS' case) chunks of story and the pacing suffers terribly.

FPS' and some platformers(Braid comes to mind, I never played all the way through braid though, I should do that some day) have been getting a lot better at the integration thing, but usually those genres don't have very interesting stories.


Storytelling doesn't matter. If Lord of the Rings can still be remembered even though the storytelling in that is HORRIBLE then any video game can be a classic as well. Storytelling doesn't matter at all. Just the quality of the stories themselves. Judging by how games have evolved over the last few years. They have beaten practically every medium BUT books in terms of quality anymore.


1st place GFaqs Trophy for 'most failure' goes to mtjormitch, for stating how one the most greatest fantasy series ever made apparently has a convoluted story.

Congrats, you won 1st! Your parents must be proud!
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"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." - Isaac Asimov
#224mtjormitchPosted 11/29/2012 7:47:43 PM
UnderratedGamer posted...
mtjormitch posted...
Sinfullyvannila posted...
Necronmon posted...
To Sinful, I see you never played Xenogears or Saga, because those three you mentioned are far from the best stories in my eyes, they are up there but not the best.


I played XG back in the day. It's story had a lot going for it, but the pacing was atrocious. Also it was very poorly integrated with gameplay. Dat second disc...

Note, I said storytelling and not just stories.

That's usually the big problems with stories in story-based games. Especially the mid-90s ones. They don't integrate the story with the gameplay well. So you get big chunks of gameplay followed by small(or big in MGS and XS' case) chunks of story and the pacing suffers terribly.

FPS' and some platformers(Braid comes to mind, I never played all the way through braid though, I should do that some day) have been getting a lot better at the integration thing, but usually those genres don't have very interesting stories.


Storytelling doesn't matter. If Lord of the Rings can still be remembered even though the storytelling in that is HORRIBLE then any video game can be a classic as well. Storytelling doesn't matter at all. Just the quality of the stories themselves. Judging by how games have evolved over the last few years. They have beaten practically every medium BUT books in terms of quality anymore.


1st place GFaqs Trophy for 'most failure' goes to mtjormitch, for stating how one the most greatest fantasy series ever made apparently has a convoluted story.

Congrats, you won 1st! Your parents must be proud!


No. I meant the books. They are horribly written. Seriously, I tried, I tried damn hard but after ten pages of hobbit birthday explainations I quit. I mean... seriously... the movies honestly are better because of the damn fact that the book is horribly paced and written. It is a good story but not in book form.
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People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#225magemaximusPosted 11/29/2012 7:51:02 PM
TheSnypahvol2 posted...
I think some people really missed what this topic was aiming for...

Soul Calibur was the first to come to mind for me. Its the very definition of mediocre now.

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You can't persuade fanboys. You'd be better off trying to convince a wall. ~CodeNamePlasmaSnake~
#226J90074Posted 11/29/2012 8:36:54 PM
Fuzion Frenzy
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SSBB FC:0989-1407-2689
#227Carribean_CoolPosted 11/29/2012 8:47:11 PM
Perfect Light posted...
pothocket posted...
Dude...just, come on.

The game resolved all those different story arcs before the ending. The fate of the Krogans and all the stuff with Tali and Legion, it was anything but flat. Everything up till the return to Earth was great. Hell, I even loved the co-op. My melee Geth Infiltrator build was epic. Guns and shields are for scrubs.

I'm talking about the overall feel of ME3. From the very beginning I knew something was off. They skipped over Shepard's entire trial because they said people would think it was too "boring." It would have been anything but boring, it would have added some tension and drama to the first act of the story.

Not only that, but the Reapers invaded within the first 20 minutes, which means everything after that felt silly because you were either rushing to get things done or sitting around drinking or dancing in a club while millions of people die each day back on Earth. They should have saved the Reaper invasion for closer to the end, which would give more time for the player to not feel rushed through the entire game.

My third gripe is the Prothean DLC. I got it for free because I got the collector's edition, but my buddy had to get the regular version because they were out of CEs by the time he had the money to pre-order, which was only days before the game launched. After playing the game, From Ashes was pretty integral to the plot, there was no reason it needed to be separate from the main game.

My biggest gripe with ME3 in comparison to the other games, was that I never felt like the final battle ever came to anything or that my War Assets ever showed themselves. We spent the entire game collecting these assets to strengthen our military might, and we never get a cutscene showing those assets. We got a few seconds of two or three of the same races that will always be present during the final confrontation saying they're ready, and then you spend the rest of the time with Shepard.

You hardly see any of the destruction the Reapers are causing or spend any time with the war assets. It felt so detached, I wanted to see turians and quarians charging into battle together, with the hanar shooting their back-mounted cannons, stomping behind the ground soldiers with aircraft rocketing overhead, blasting at the enemies on the planet while in space, the ships begin the battle with the entire fleet of Reapers, everyone blasting and shooting. I wanted to see that, as I'm sure a lot of other people did.

Not to mention the ending, which was pure disappointment and the exact opposite of what BioWare promised it would be. I am a published author, but it doesn't take an author to see the ending for the narrative mess it is. Nothing is explained, too much is left to the player's imagination. Before the Extended Cut, we didn't know what had happened and BioWare knew they ****ed up because they fixed it for free.

Mass Effect 2 had middle child syndrome, but it was a much more personal story with Shepard bopping around the galaxy looking for soldiers to bring together. Then, in ME3 pretty much all the people you spent the entire second game getting vanished to do their own thing. What?! Why did we spend an entire game wasting our time? It was baffling to me some of the decisions they made.


Agreed. Plus to add to the fact that we were supposed to have temporary squadmates throughout the game too. And the ME2 squadmates getting reduced to a lame 10 minute cameo, and their romances sucking real hard, kinda makes saving them all kinda pointless in ME2, except Garrus and Tali since they actually, you know, join you. Plus the squad in ME3 is easily the worst of the trilogy. EDI? FFS really?
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#228Illumi_KnightPosted 11/29/2012 10:02:29 PM
kungfuj0 posted...
The utter lack of DEF JAM in this topic offends me.

Granted, they only had two games before this gen, but it was a series that had potential. And then Kudo Tsamouda's dumb ass took that potential and shot it in the forehead at point-blank range with a shotgun when he made Def Jam: Icon.

The ONLY thing that THAT game was an Icon for is suckage...pure, unmittigated, unadulterated SUCKAGE.

What could have grown into a great series is now in shambles, just as I wish his career was.


Feel the same here.. I liked Vendetta but Fight for NY was AMAZING. I loved replaying the story, also combining different fighting styles.

Back when MS was still updating backwards compatibility, I loaded up their BC list to see if they added either of them. I was sad every single time.
#229SinfullyvannilaPosted 11/29/2012 10:30:27 PM(edited)
It is more Books=video games>>>>>>>>>>>>>>comic books>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Movies.

That is way more realistic if you actually take a look at the video games as a medium for telling stories. They just do it better than movies anymore.

Also, the fact that you are doing the "If I wanted a story I could read a book" Thing. That automatically makes me ******* hate you with all of my being. It is the more ignorant and the dumbest statement made in the entirety of video games. That is how ******* moronic it is. It insults video games entirely. So video games can't tell stories? Go bleep yourself. Seriously. The sheer fact that they keep making story based games keeps proving you retrodrones wrong. Story is far more important than gameplay anymore. Not because gameplay is bad but because story is and always will be more important. Not just in video games, but movies, Books, TV shows and comic books. That is a fact that if yo don't accept than you are going to hate the next generation of video games as they keep maturing our of your obvious low age story attentive capabilities.

Visuals... um... yeah... when video games look better than CGI only movies anymore you know for a fact that video games are lesser! wait... wut...

Do you see how moronic that is you retrodrone?

Also, the fact that they didn't test Bioshock proves something else to. This arguement about tetris being good for you is bullcrap. Heck, the tetris effect is more or less a condition which in and of itself proves that Tetris is more harming than good.


I never said that videogames couldn't tell good stories, I definitely implied that they could. They just rarely do. Sorry man, but people dedicate their whole lives studying about the written creative form, making their own style and prose, constructing and destructing archetypes etc. People have been doing that for thousands of years. Videogames simply haven't developed nearly enough as a medium to get to that stage. People who make stories for videogames tend to just take what they learn from other mediums and try to shoehorn into this new medium, and it just doesn't work.

And wait, you're telling me I have a short attention span when you couldn't even get through 10 pages of The Fellowship of the Ring? Dude, I've read 600 page books cover to cover in one sitting.

I don't know where you get the idea that I hate story-based games. Probably 60% of the games I play are RPGs. I just don't play them for their stories. I loved Bioshock too, but that was mostly due to the atmosphere. The story was pretty good too, for a videogame.

I don't think you know what the Tetris Effect is either, since it's not limited to Tetris or even videogames. I actually feel the Tetris Effect mostly from story based games. I tend to relate people and things to characters and concepts from the story.
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Polite conversation should never include Politics, Religion or what constitutes an RPG.
Playing a game for it's story is like watching porn for it's story.
#230SinfullyvannilaPosted 11/29/2012 10:31:44 PM
I think I said the word "novel" and Mitch's brain exploded.
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Polite conversation should never include Politics, Religion or what constitutes an RPG.
Playing a game for it's story is like watching porn for it's story.