This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Xbox Live: No Longer the Gold Standard

#61HENTAIDOJIPosted 1/4/2013 2:58:47 PM
Games for Windows Live is free because Microsoft tried to charge the same service fee and the service did horrible numbers while Steam continued to dominate. Microsoft caught on to the idea that PC gamers weren't going to be duped into paying for the service, so Microsoft now offers it for free.

Doesn't mean it still can't be done. World of Warcraft is $15 a month.

It has nothing to do with anyone doing anything legal. In fact, your comment borders on being non-sequiter. We are talking about online game services and you jump into random gibberish about piracy.

The point is that there are lots of things available for free on PC which are not free elsewhere. By extension, all of these not free things must be as bad.
---
http://nopybot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/hentai-demotivational1.jpg
#62TheFeshPincePosted 1/4/2013 3:04:16 PM
nothingbeast posted...
Well, I suppose it's more eloquent than "Wah wah, i'm an entitled child. Gimme gimme gimme" but it reads about as deep.


exactly
---
You wanna make me a sandwich?
#63AkaimizuPosted 1/4/2013 3:11:28 PM(edited)
What does PSN not do?


Ok. Let's break it down one at a time, since I have all the services, I'll mention exactly what the differences are from what you are saying.

1. It offers a friend list - That is, true. That's one point and something even the Wii U and 3DS now support.

2. voice chat (Only if the specific game is coded to work with Voice chat. This works only for the games that specifically create their own Voice chat code. Plenty of games don't support voice chat at all. Xbox Live allows you to voice chat for *every* 360 game in existence.)

Also, 360 has organized Party Chat. PS3 lacked the hardware setup to be able to do it. Alas, that feature will never, ever, come to PS3. You and I have to wait for the next gen, if we want to do it on a Sony console. Vita allows for organized multi-user text chat (finally) and does allow Party Chat for *select* games. Again, Sony still putting it in the hands of developers whether any of that is supported as way too many Vita games already completely shut down network services while the game is in play effectively bringing communication down lower than 3DS standards, at that point.

3. online gaming, gamer rankings, trophy tracking - Yep. Those are also intact as well. However, the lack of the same level of convenient communication (even for text), hampers this quite a bit. Since devs must support the online code, themselves, they're often less likely to offer the same level of online features or any at all with the exception of large company multi-platform. Fortunately, they have been on board, for the most part, and haven't been too bad on not supporting online features. However, the PSN non-large company scene has been a complete different animal compared to XBLA not just in game numbers but in support for online and communication functions. Half the time, my friend and I use XBL to communication while playing our PS3s even on an online game.

And the fact that PS3s don't even come with headsets says another thing. I have literally more than 3 times the PSN friends than my Xbox Live friends. My Xbox Live friends are all way more active in online gaming whereas I hardly get any multiplayer peep from my PS3 friends. It's still, mostly played offline, figuratively. There's more communication going back and forth on Wii U than that.
---
"because 'Clerks' is NINJA in itself." - Ninja Mask lessons by Vern Reid (http://houseofninja.com/tutorial.php)
#64SolisPosted 1/4/2013 3:12:03 PM
CaPwnD posted...
PSN is not the same service as XBL. You can try to spin it any way you want, it does not the same thing like that article says.

The article never says they're exactly the same. It says that Xbox Live is "charging significant money ($59.99/year, or $9.99/month) for features given away for free on competing platforms". Which is true: options such as online multiplayer, internet browsing, and group chat are all available for free on other services while requiring a subscription to use on Xbox Live.

This isn't just about what features each service have. It's about features that multiple services share where one platform locks them behind a fee-based subscription, while the others offer at no extra cost.
---
"Walking tanks must exist somewhere for there to be such attention to detail like this in mech sim." - IGN Steel Battalion review
#65NintendologicalPosted 1/4/2013 3:15:19 PM
HENTAIDOJI posted...


Doesn't mean it still can't be done. World of Warcraft is $15 a month.

The point is that there are lots of things available for free on PC which are not free elsewhere. By extension, all of these not free things must be as bad.


I see that you are making an effort to have a civil discussion so I will dispense with internet meme speak. Forgive me for saying "fail logic is fail." The Internet has that affect on me, where I can be just a bit more snarky than the situation merits.

With that said...

1) World of Warcraft charges a monthly fee because of the money needed to run that service. Blizzard runs call centers for technical support, they have to pay for IT to maintain servers, they have to pay staff to actually be in the game 24 hours a day in order to help out users that encounter glitches.

So say a user is out in an area and suddenly the user falls into an infinite void and can't get out, but they don't die. A GM would have to go find this player, report the game error and help the player get out of that situation. Then there is the simple fact that Blizzard stores millions of terabytes worth of user data (game saves, items). You are literally paying for the maintenance of a game world. That isn't like paying $60 a year so you can be offered a server connection to play a round of Call of Duty, where no real user data is stored other than performance records.

2) Your juxtaposition is comparing two unlike quantities. When I note that a competing online service hosts free servers and online functions such as friend lists and voice chat, I am comparing a similar quality to a similar quality. When you say that there are many illegal copies of various media available for access on the PC, you are comparing a different quality.

Not only that, but you are making a false dichotomy (a logical fallacy) that ignores the fact that there are legal forms of such media made available. Netflix is on PC and Xbox 360, yet PC users don't pay an additional fee to use Netflix. They just pay for their Netflix subscription. Same for Hulu Plus and other similar services. So the availability of illegal content has no bearing on a 1:1 comparison of content and services legally offered between two competing platforms.
---
"Your uncle was so dumb he paid the full price of a new PS2 to rent it for a week? Your family tree must be a straight line" - Finlandia
#66RyuuHou25Posted 1/4/2013 3:24:38 PM
This is pretty hilarious seeing people decrying the article, yet at the same time condemning those who still pay 60 dollars a year.

So, you're supporting the fact you have to pay, but you are also acknowledging at the same time that it's too expensive and that people have generally had to reduce the costs on their own through various means to continue to use it........

Can we say Oxymoron much people?
---
PSN ID: RyuuHou24
"I never said that....and even if I said it, I never said it" - Dr Peter Venkman RGB
#67CapwnDPosted 1/4/2013 3:31:46 PM(edited)
From: Nintendological | #049
You say they are not similar services

I never said that.

The article says that they are the same thing. I am saying that they are not the same thing. I am saying that your experience on both is not the same.

you instead wish to derail the discussion by attempting to downplay my argument


The premise is that they are the same thing. They are not the same. You do not have the same experience on both systems. What downplaying, I'm stating a fact that is vastly understated by the person who wrote the article.
---
Thrash or be Thrashed
#68HENTAIDOJIPosted 1/4/2013 4:08:54 PM(edited)
You are literally paying for the maintenance of a game world.

I would say the same applies on Xbox live, except covering hundreds of games. While i can't really give an example of a Live mod going into the game to correct something as in Warcraft, I see support staff banning hackers, punishing cheaters, tracking down fraudsters and restoring the livelyhood of the victims.

This still does not explain why any number of other PC MMO's are free to play (and I don't mean ad revenue based or DLC skimming) ...unless you're suggesting WoW is a MMO made of more which I would say it is....and certainly worth more in the eyes of it's users , much like XBL.

2) Your juxtaposition is comparing two unlike quantities. When I note that a competing online service hosts free servers and online functions such as friend lists and voice chat, I am comparing a similar quality to a similar quality. When you say that there are many illegal copies of various media available for access on the PC, you are comparing a different quality.

But the precedent is still the same. One product or service is free here, the same product or service is not free there.

Not only that, but you are making a false dichotomy (a logical fallacy) that ignores the fact that there are legal forms of such media made available. Netflix is on PC and Xbox 360, yet PC users don't pay an additional fee to use Netflix. They just pay for their Netflix subscription. Same for Hulu Plus and other similar services.

Well that's easy. On PC, none of those service are routed through Xbox Live. If you want it *free* on Xbox 360, just route your PC playback through WMC.

So the availability of illegal content has no bearing on a 1:1 comparison of content and services legally offered between two

Well not all free movies are illegal (Crackle for example). Does Crackle's library make ill of any store that sells these movies?

TBH, this whole Live Vs. PSN more or less applies in the same way as Netflix Vs. Crackle.

They're both a movie streaming service.
The free one is more limited than the subscription based one.

---
http://nopybot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/hentai-demotivational1.jpg
#69CapwnDPosted 1/4/2013 3:35:03 PM
The article also fails to address other issues, such as download speeds, bottle necking for items in high demand, and the draconian approach to updates that the PS3 uses compared to the 5 second updates that the 360 uses.
---
Thrash or be Thrashed
#70XImperialDragonPosted 1/4/2013 3:39:45 PM
One would think Xbox Live's maintenance and profitability could actually be supported by the plethora of ads all over the dashboard alone, considering advertising is outrageously lucrative (with out of the 9 titles that makes up the Home tab of the dashboard, only 3 of them are actually used for your gaming and personalization while the remaining are all advertising about games, music and movies).

Honestly, I'd like to be able to modify the UI to at least somewhat justify the cost of the service. Using Netflix on the Xbox isn't exactly a great 'Gold' bonus, and neither is getting the occasional arcade game cheaper (again, considering Steam and PSN both do a stellar job of this already...). Party chat isn't worth the $60 annual retail price, in my honest opinion.
---
Sony bought Konami and will release a DDR game for the Nintendo 3DS. In this game, you set your 3DS on the floor and stomp on it till it no longer functions.