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Gameplay vs Story

#121Arucard05Posted 1/28/2013 12:24:00 AM
Well I don't think anybody could argue that having every aspect of a game being well produced is a bad thing. For my money, a game just has to get something right.
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#122JamanjaxPosted 1/28/2013 12:33:24 AM
From: mtjormitch | #560
Thank you! Finally, intellect in this topic! I love it!


If that is intellect in your eyes (and don't get me wrong Aru, it is in mine as well), then just why in the hell are you attempting to bring this totalitarian view to boards, in which story is all that matters in modern gaming, all that will ever matter for the future of gaming, and forcing that **** down everyone's throats at such a rapid rate?
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#123Halo_ForeverPosted 1/28/2013 1:29:36 AM
Dragon Nexus posted...
On a more personal level I'd suggest you're simply a person who doesn't care for stories in most senses. And that's fine. But you can't really speak for those of us who enjoy stories and tell us we're wrong. I don't enjoy watching sports but I'm not about to tell people they're wasting their time watching sports when they might as well go out and do it themselves or whatever.

I think it's a shame that some people can't feel that attachment I do for game characters. When I hit the ending for Mass Effect 3 I didn't just choose a random colour, or choose the "good" ending, I spent about 20 minutes on the pause screen trying to figure out what my Shepard would do. I had created her entire history and I'd experienced everything she'd done up to that point. I had a grasp of her character as created by me beyond what the game was simply telling mem but even so I was stuck between two options, and in the end I made the choice I knew she'd make.


I would have that were the stories not utterly terrible and the characters excessively lame (well except for the characters I actually like, but they will usually be killed after a short while). I'm a fairly avid reader (10-20 novels per years, used to be 50-60 but I don't have that kind of time anymore), who wants the story to have internal consistency.

Consistency is one of those things that games however are completely horrendous at first you have Story and Gameplay Segregation where your PC (who in the last level alone was shot 739 times, received Shrapnel from 15 grenades and got knocked down by 3 large explosions) being scared of a pistol that can barely kill anyone in the actual game.

Secondly, they have a very serious problem with the scale of things, a sci-fi setting with shields can mitigate this, but otherwise nearly any given game protagonist is a walking field of extermination. Even weaker characters like Riddick and Adam Jensen rack up hundreds of kills, while more straight up shooters kill over a thousand (a general FPS killcount is around 600-2000) and this is usually not reflected in the story (Far Cry 2 avoids this, a high rep protagonist is feared by low level mercs). Instead we get cheese fests like Max Payne 3, where he complains the ENTIRE game how useless and worthless he is while being able to fly out of an exploding boat and shoot 7 gang members in the head during the hang time.

Especially RPGs tend to be completely horrible with this, having the PC work for some thugs to get something when they could easily just straight up exterminate them instead (Aria from ME2 is especially egregious, with the Slavers from the Pitt coming in close after).

Mass Effect which you mentioned is also the perfect example why I don't get attached to characters or stories, I rank the original Mass Effect as one of the best videogame narratives ever (meaning on the level of a average sci-fi novel), while it is not free of blemishes (hello Virmire beacon and Noveria garage door), it is fairly consistent and it has good highlights.

Mass Effect 2 by comparison starts with idiot logic, pulling first resurrection magic out of its rectum and then just going off to the deep end directly. Why does my Shepard who murdered every last Cerberus lab assistant with extreme prejudice in ME1 suddenly join them merrily in ME2 (bonus: my character was a Sole Survivor aka the beginning where Cerberus murdered your entire squad). It is certainly not because the Collectors are a threat since on a scale of causalities they rank below "collateral damage from one Chinese offensive in WWII" or Batarian Slavers. Hell, on Horizon rudimentary planetary defense systems are able to drive them away.
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#124Halo_ForeverPosted 1/28/2013 1:39:19 AM
ME3 then solely works on idiot logic including Kai Leng, Reapers forgetting their invasion plan thrice, the entire Geth-Quarian war and AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHH. By that point I am simply not giving a **** anymore since nothing makes sense while the game not playing it for laughs either (Scott Pilgrim doesn't make, however it isn't supposed to either).


The problem is that usually the gameplay and story are opposed to one another in time usage, I don't want my action game to be interrupted every minute by tedious BS that I don't care for (Bayonetta, Vanquish, Blacksite, Max Payne 3, Metal Gear Revengeance apparently). Most good stories need tons of time to develop their characters, however unless the story is exceptionally good that is time that games should dedicate to gameplay instead and there is little middle ground here to tread, unless our soldiers suddenly start sharing their stories in the middle of a firefight (think those awful drama sections in the Expendables-series, except that they are taking place in the middle of a huge firefight).
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#125Darkcloud20Posted 1/28/2013 2:18:30 AM
Depends on the game. A game with story focus better has some good story. If your story is bad don't btoher me with it. I played Sonic Adventure recently and wathcing these cutscenes almost made me vomit because they where so incredibly crappy stupid.
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#126MR_SorenPosted 1/28/2013 9:08:22 AM
mtjormitch posted...
MR_Soren posted...
Gameplay. They are games, after all, and I can have tons of fun playing one with little or no story if the gameplay is good.

If the gameplay is bad and the story is great, I won't play it. That story could have been told better through a different game or medium, and isn't worth my time while it's wrapped around a poor quality game.


Wow, even more ignorance now! This time, with semantics! The very nature of how video games are becoming, calling them simply, 'games' is actually pissing a lot of developers off these days, They want stuff much like how Graphic Novels did so they could get away from dumbass semantics like above.

I support Interactive expierence or Interactive Fiction. Both make a bunch of sense and keep that bullcrap, 'game' word away from a medium that is easily a storytelling powerhouse.



I know that a lot of people enjoy interactive fiction. I just happen to prefer games. You'll note that my previous post was phrased entirely in my preferences.

Calling me ignorant simply because I don't share your opinion suggests that you have no interest in fostering an actual discussion. You're doing this thread and your arguments a disservice by resorting to insults.


How video games have become nowadays is WAY different compared to atari days kiddo.


Either you think I've been playing since Atari days, or you think I'm a kid. Can't be both.


Considering video games with crap gameplay and great story are becoming more and more well loved while gameplay only games are starting to finally die out such as Atari going bankrupt and many game businesses dying out is in fact due to the fact that story based video games are current and the future of the medium.


Atari died decades ago when Nolan Bushnell was ousted and all of their good developers left to form Activision. They are nothing but a frequently traded and licensed logo today, and have no relevance to this discussion.

Gameplay focused games are no longer in the glory days of PacMan, but they are not dying out. Games like MarioKart, Street Fighter, XCOM, Dark Souls, and Hero Academy are doing quite well and winning awards. Games with great gameplay and a lot of storytelling like Fire Emblem and StarCraft, and Portal are still plentiful, popular, and winning awards. Beat-em-ups, shoot-em-ups, tower defense, and puzzle games are still coming out and have their share of fans. Also, most multiplayer is entirely gameplay driven. When somebody plays his 159th online Black Ops 2 or StarCraft II match, it's not because he's curious about the story. It's all about enjoying the gameplay.


However, you are on to something. Interactive fiction has been growing in popularity. This comes as no surprise. More people are interested in a passive experience (movies, television) rather than an active experience (games). It is only expected that adding passive elements (cutscenes, story sequences, threat-free exploration, etc) to some games would broaden the audience for electronic entertainment.

I wouldn't say that interactive fiction is THE future of electronic entertainment, but it is definitely going to be a part of it.


You might not agree, but hey, you can always sell your stuff and leave us players of this storytelling medium alone


Excuse me? You posted a poll. I voted and explained why I voted the way I did. I'm sorry the results are not what you expected, but don't try to spin this as me picking on you. I am leaving you and your legions of interactive fiction fans alone when I'm playing my games, and I have no intentions of selling anything.
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#127gabriusPosted 1/28/2013 10:10:08 AM
Soren.... you're fighting a brick wall of ignorance and intolerance - there is no victory to be had here.
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#128badboyPosted 1/28/2013 10:15:48 AM
Gameplay is more important but the story comes next.
#129MR_SorenPosted 1/28/2013 11:08:24 AM
gabrius posted...
Soren.... you're fighting a brick wall of ignorance and intolerance - there is no victory to be had here.


I don't doubt that, but I thought some facts might help others reading the thread.

Anyway, I'm done with that and have been playing BlazBlue since. :)
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#130NejiHyuga900Posted 1/28/2013 1:28:14 PM
Story > Gameplay

Take Telltale Games' The Walking Dead video game for example. It doesn't have much for gameplay but the story itself made it Game of the Year 2012.
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