This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

A video game without a story is completely worthless.

#1mtjormitchPosted 5/14/2013 1:58:45 PM
Yes. I truly mean this with 100% of my being. A video game, without a story is about as worthless as a book without words, a movie without picture or sound, or a comic book with nothing but the comic bubbles and no words at all.

A video game without a story simply do one thing to the entire medium. They damage it. Hard.

The very nature of the saying, "If I wanted a story I could read a book" is so insulting to anyone who has ever worked on a video game before in their lives that it could literally cause some video game writers to suicide due to how little appreciated people can be about story within video games. That is freaking insulting and even this video game community has even said this at all.

More about how under appreciated video game writers are, anyone that likes video games for their stories are almost automatically insulted for their choice in video games all the time!

"Why would you play this game? Story doesn't matter dude."

"Lolz, you played the game for the story and not the multiplayer! LULZ!"

"Minecraft didn't have a story, so all games with story are automatically not as good as minecraft."

These three are just SOME of the comments I have heard, here and even other sites about people who play video games for story. So... what if I read a book for a story? What then?

"Oh! Reading is good for ya! The story is quite excellent in that one!"

"J.R.R. Tolkien may be a bad writer with a damn near unreadable at times. His books are still wonderful!"

So... because I play a video game for a story means I am a lesser person... but reading a book because of the story is the exact opposite... Um... what?

Heck, I am going to flat out say it. That is unfair on all possible levels. A video game CAN tell a story, many times better than movies and television and even most books can do. So... instead of embracing that and encouraging that more, video gamers are shunning it because... why exactly?

One reason they say is because gameplay is more important and should always be more important because video games started out that way in the first place.

There is major things wrong with this ideal though. It does not even discuss the fact that books themselves were first made to catalog food rations and history books. Or that movies were, at first, the mere playthings of it's inventors basically creating the worlds first youtube poop videos in existence. What I am talking about is simple. All mediums evolve. All of them.

Did you know that The Lord of the Rings books were considered to be terrible books back in the day because they were horribly written? (Which I myself will say that they are pretty terribly written in my opinion.)

All the while in the future, The Lord of the Rings movies are genuinely great and honestly some of the best movies around because of how well done it was and how well paced the story was.

This brings me to reason two of what whiney gamers say about story in video games.

"Story being more important!? So... you like cutscenes more than actually doing things?"

Story does not equal cutscenes. If you really think that then have you ever actually played a video game with writing in it before? Besides, cutscenes are even in the best of video games out there. Bioshock itself has a couple, The famous Andrew Ryan scene and even the endings are all cutscene! Do they detract from the games quality. No, not at all.

Continued.
---
People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#2mtjormitch(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2013 1:59:01 PM
Heck, even Spec Ops, The Line has a bunch of cutscenes. Do they detract from the game? No, they don't at all. With how much this site commends the game but condemns cutscenes... that is just insane.

Besides, in a lot of newer games, a lot of developers have to make the gameplay the storyteller instead, not because they wanna do it, but they feel forced to do it because video gamers who hate cutscenes are just going to complain about the game completely. This creates games such as Resident Evil 6 where interactivity is in every cutscene because they believe gamers have no attention span at all.

I gotta be honest. What would you rather have, a random button press in the middle of a scene and if you fail you die and go back to a save point, or just watch a cutscene and then continue on? Which one would you rather have?

The third one is,

"People don't care about story, if they did there would be more games with stories in them out there!"

Oh man. Does this one make me grind my teeth! Here is my short answer to this stupidity. Then why are modern video games becoming more story based then?

No one alive on earth today has ever been able to manage answering that one without the next horrible saying being used. Anyways, The very fact that video games like The Walking Dead even exist proves one thing. Video games have become a storytelling medium, it may even be because of people saying video games don't have good stories is the EXACT reason why developers are now making more story based video games. To prove those gamers wrong, and oh boy, have they done such a wonderful job!

Now. To the final saying which gamers with a very petty look at their own medium say.

"Gameplay is more important because the word 'game' is in video game so I am automatically correct!"

Um... no, that is not true in any sense whatsoever. That is semantics that do not mean what they once did. Kinda like how British slang for cigirette means a deregatory remark against homosexuals. Just because it sounds like one thing doesn't mean it isn't something else altogether. Anyways, this line of thinking just sounds wrong in so many ways and with so many holes in it that it actually becomes difficult with stopping this line of thinking with how ignorant it utterly is.

The next one, five, is utterly vague.

"I play video games for fun, not for story."

Um... you do realize story in and of itself can be fun... right? Or are you totally going to ignore that point and just keep restating this same point constantly when in reality it is so vague that it is impossible to debate against due to how little you are even willing to discuss why a video game is fun for you and why having fun with a story is wrong... which in itself is ignorant to say since many people find it fun to watch a story in movies and TV, while many find it fun to read stories in books and comic books is fun, but interacting with the story is just to much to handle and shouldn't be fun... um... what?

Continued.
---
People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#3mtjormitch(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2013 1:59:52 PM
Those five sayings are common... why? The amount of holes in each of them are insane and when one breaks down they go to one of the other three and as you continue to poke holes they either stop posting or just restate one of the reasons again in a more well written manner but it actually means the same dang thing all over again. So this line of thinking keeps going on until the persons eventual death and the newer generation of people comes in and says that story matter. Which is basically happening right now as I speak.

It has happened with books, movies, and even comic books. It is foolish to say story doesn't matter and those four common sayings are nothing more than excuses by retro gamers so they can try and fill a niche and make it seem like they matter so they get games like I Wanna Be the Guy so their skill is challenged more than actual emotional investment. Sickening really that these people still exist.

I am not saying gameplay is unimportant. I am merely saying that thinking it is more important than story, the one thing which basically has legitimized the entire medium to the point of being art as being unimportant is an insult on a grand scale and moronic beyond belief. I may be restating what I said earlier, but saying these things is more damaging than anything else in this entire industry.

Now, I am going to list why exactly video games with stories are just better than gameplay only video games.

Number 1. They will always be remembered.

This one is so true it isn't even funny. People still play Metal Gear Solid yearly, not because of the gameplay, but because of the story. Heck, the entire existence of GoG.com's offerings and how Planetscape torment is always in the top ten shows how important story has become in the medium of video games and with how many people that are still willing to play older classics because of their stories.

Heck, the amount of time Planetscape Torment not being in the top ten sellers is honestly rare. Same with the Fallout games and even more famous adventure games. These games are still played. Even Grim Fandango has insane mod support online so you can still play it if you still have a copy.

Number 2. What do people talk about more? Story or gameplay?

Lets be honest here. Unless you are completely stuck in a game and are unable or to lazy to find a FAQ on GameFAQ's for a guide, that is truly the only reason to ever talk about the gameplay of a video game. All the while most message boards about video games are entirely about the story. Heck, people still, to this day, discuss how Final Fantasy 6 was amazing and which villain was better, Kefka or Sephiroth? (Let's not get started with that here please.)

Or heck, Bioshock Infinite, the only thing to talk about in terms of the gameplay was where the ciphers were. Other than that most of the message boards online were only ever talking about the story. Sorry gameplay only lovers. But the very fact with how people discuss story far more than gameplay shows me what people really care about.

Number 3. Virtual Novels even existing and starting to do well across the world.

Continued.
---
People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#4mtjormitch(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2013 2:00:17 PM
The very fact that such things exist is astounding. Now sure... I will agree that there are some... uh... very AO rated ones out there. But still, Sturgeons Law and whatnot. Heck, Phoenix Wright, 999, Even freaking Higerashi When They Cry are starting to become more popular. 999 itself was a major hit on the DS system and has been reprinted several times already. (I got one of the first ones with the bad box art on it.) But still. Virtual Novels are starting to become popular. These games games which gameplay only gamers have tried to dismiss as not being video games... so? Just because they do things differently than a Call of Duty game or a Persona game doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be called a video game. Heck, these games kinda prove the next point which I am going to make which is.

Number 4, you don't need gameplay to make a great video game.

Yes, I said it. The sheer existence of Virtual novels, and with some of them selling well proves to me and many people that gameplay is honestly optional sometimes. Honestly, some games would honestly be better if it was just about the interactions than the gameplay. Such as Catherine with how stupidly hard some of it's puzzles were. Or Mass Effect in which it forces gameplay down your throat because they want you to be interested in the game constantly by adding action to it where it really shouldn't... sorry, but I like talking to aliens more than shooting them! Or even something like Deadly Premonition proves my next point.

Number 5. You can make a horrible game and have it saved by incredible story. The very existence of Deadly Premonition is almost a paradox on video games in general. It proves in so many ways why story is more important than gameplay that it is simply astonishing. I mean... the controls are just plain awful, the graphics are dated and even the sound effects are weird! But the story in and of itself has carried this game so far that it is a official cult classic by many. It is one of the companies best selling games and even the PS3 version was the most preordered game in the publishers business!

This isn't the first game to prove this either. Another would have to be Drakengard... oh boy... this is a game that deserves it's own topic. It is basically the Evangelion of JRPG video games. Just search of "Drakengard Baby ending" and you will know what I mean by that. The game is basically a very medicore Dynasty Warriors rip off. But the story in it is quite incredible with how insane it gets. Heck, I think it is the only piece of media I have ever seen that has dealt with very perverted priests, child torturing, sociopathic heros, love triangle that involves one of the characters sister being involved all wrapped up in a Lovecraftian setting with dragons... damn...

Yeah... I recommend checking it out.

Number six has to the very fact of the matter, that story based video games have legitimized this medium to being art far more than any gameplay only one. Honestly, do I have to say anything else. The very fact that people push games like Shadow of the Colossus and Metal Gear Solid to even ones like Fallout New Vegas proves how much people love those games. Gamers themselves legitimized this medium by buying story based video games constantly. Helping create sequels which are just as good or better... with the occasional misstep.

Continued.
---
People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#5mtjormitch(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2013 2:02:30 PM
Actually, the very best point in how video games have been legitimized because of story is thanks to Mass Effect 3's ending. Yes, really. With how much rage there was to the ending, there was so much discussion about how the story ended terribly, ways to fix it and with how many mistakes their really were. This single event pretty much proved how important story was in the entire medium of video games. Go to their forums now and they still talk about the ending and how it could have been done better. Go to youtube and you will see countless videos about people talking about the ending and how it could have been better.

The amount of hate and sadness in the community was so much that even the two main doctors of Bioware left. They may not have said why they left. But it is obvious with how the community reacted to previous events in Biowares history that the stress finally got to them. Talking about the story so much that it caused two major company execs to leave the gaming industry for good just proves one thing... do not mess up in writing, do not mess up the story, and for the love of all things. Respect story in video games. Any developer alive now needs to look at what happened there and know what they should do. Story matters.

Let's see if any poster here on this site can actually debate about this at all instead of just listing a single game like it's proof against it like so many other trolls do. Sorry, but just listing something is not proof, you need evidence to the contrary and you need to make an actual point instead of just disagreeing because you like blowing things up like a pyromaniac like how so many other gamers act. So either provide intelligent thought provoking debate or leave this topic alone.
---
People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#6DieMyBridePosted 5/14/2013 2:02:58 PM
TL:DR

I can't tell you how many hours I put into Tetris. Saving the world from unorganized boxes with a touch of romance and mystery. The ending is so mind blowing and unexpected. A true masterpiece.
---
XboxLive GT:JoeStillLife
#7Arucard05Posted 5/14/2013 2:03:58 PM
From: mtjormitch | #001
a movie without picture or sound


I dunno, this doesn't seem so bad.

http://i.imgur.com/f5O8pPv.png
---
www.bewaretherobotsquad.com
Go there now! Or don't. Whatever man.
#8SunDevil77Posted 5/14/2013 2:08:00 PM(edited)
Christ, kid. You need a job at the National Enquirer

---
#9mtjormitch(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2013 2:07:03 PM
DieMyBride posted...
TL:DR

I can't tell you how many hours I put into Tetris. Saving the world from unorganized boxes with a touch of romance and mystery. The ending is so mind blowing and unexpected. A true masterpiece.


Get out. You didn't read it. So get out. You have no worth in this conversation if you choose to literally ignore every point I made and instead deciding to be annoying with mentioning a game that was only popular because it was a pack in title for a system that only got it because the rights for it were very cheap due to being made in soviet russia. Try again if you wish to make an actual point with anything.
---
People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#10nazacuckooPosted 5/14/2013 2:07:24 PM
Arucard05 posted...
From: mtjormitch | #001
a movie without picture or sound


I dunno, this doesn't seem so bad.

http://i.imgur.com/f5O8pPv.png



A movie without picture or sound? Isn't that what we call a "book"?
---
Xbox 360 Gamertag: NazaCageRatt
The official Stalfos of the "A link to the Past 3DS" board.