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Re: A video game without a story is completely worthless.

#51Halo_ForeverPosted 5/17/2013 6:47:27 AM
The large issues that I see with narratives game are the following. (spoilers to Spec Ops the Line and Dead Space)

1. The scale varies too much: The average game hero kills A LOT of people and destroys ridiculous amounts of hardware. Even fairly realistic games like Jagged Alliance 2 can end with characters who have hundreds of kills. The average mission in flight game has the Air Force of a small country destroyed. On the other side we have countries with ridiculously small armies. In WWII my country of 3 million mobilized 400 000 soldiers, so having your game explain that China can only send 50 guys somewhere in a World War is not credible.

2. The elements that play a crucial part of a story are easy in film and other medium but pure hell in a game: Every single little thing that a human actor can do, has to be done in a game with a new animation, a conversation can take ages to sync, a change of clothing requires new models and so forth.

3. The writing likes destroying itself. This is probably my largest issue as most videogames have goddamned stupid stories and the more they try to make it advanced the more they **** it up. There is no sense of when enough is enough.

a) Trying to make it epic when there is no need to. For instance the Dead Space fails miserably in this as the makers simply can't let it be in the simple mold of the "Pick up weird ass alien object and get murdered by it". Instead they pull in the military, ancient conspiracies and weirdass cults, despite that it only makes the story laughably horrible.

Call of Duty World at World is a good example of a game that subverts this, especially the Soviet campaign is never depicted as a desperate fight for the Allies however the game correctly surmises that this in no way guarantees the survival of the main character and his comrades.

b) Trying to invoke moral from things that the player did not decide for themselves. This is often seen in Spec Ops the Line, the game is trying to make me feel guilty, but it lacks effect as the game forces you to do it. They also pull it in places where you in regular gameplay could easily clear it without the atrocities.

4. Story and gameplay segregation, the sort of ridiculous rift between the actual gameplay and cutscenes/scripted scenes, Mass Effect 2 and 3 are large offenders with the so called plot pistols (pistols that OHK someone who in regular gameplay could take around 50 rounds) and forgetting all about the personal shields and such. Or the CoD favorite of taking 50 BMG rounds in the balls, 500 7.62 rounds to the chest and 15 buckshots in the face as well as a RPG in the bum and then suddenly dying from a .22 chest shot because reality just changed and they are in cutscene mode.

5. Gameplay and story are competing for the same space: Usually gameplay at the same times as story just leads to hilarity, like moving down tens of soldiers while trying to have your character say something deep about the nature of war.

Usually nearly every game I see that is praised for story falls into these categories Spec Ops the Line in particular comes to mind the 33rd had so much hardware that there was no issue in them actually leaving Dubai and bringing in reinforcements, additionally by the of it Martin Walker is pretty much Lord Death on Murder Mountain having personally killed close to 2000 enemies (how many guys did the 33 have?).


The original Mass Effect is one of the few games which I actually praise because it avoids most of this, particularly Shepards incredible victory streak is handily fortified by personal shields of the setting mitigating the luck factor in combat.
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Poet Eliot had it all wrong....
#52mtjormitchPosted 5/17/2013 8:25:30 AM
Banana_Mana posted...
For someone who loves story so much, Mitch can't write for s***... There is little structure, and almost no logic in his writing (not arguments, writing)... I would have thought that someone so intent on pushing the benefits of good storytelling would be a more capable writer.


Says the man who probably doesn't read much. I can write quite well. Heck, I can write far better than you ever will! Also, my entire original posts and such were well written, just any time I post I get ragged on for preferring story such as right now.

I mean really! You ever read posts around here? I am one of the few that has clear and concise thought throughout this entire site.

But again, people are most likely just trolling me to piss me off. But hey, I can spell far better than they ever will!
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People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#53mtjormitchPosted 5/17/2013 8:43:11 AM
@Haloforever.

1. I agree with you. Most modern military shooters are beyond dumb except for a very few. But one thing I think that can help out here is by replacing the health bar with a luck bar. Once the luck goes out as you're being shot it, it is a instant death. It makes sense and also adds credibility.

2. It's getting better. We just need to slow down a bit so tech costs don't get inhumanly insane.

3. You have shown to never like Dead Space in general. So I refuse to comment on it because it is like hitting a brick wall with a piece of soggy bread.

But with Spec Ops. You do have a choice and it does matter and it truly does make sense on a both logical and moral ground. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it wasn't good for everyone else.

4. Oh, I agree. A better example is Phoenix downs very existence in the FF games. Trust me when I say that those have caused so many arguments because of stupidity, you would not believe how often people argue about it.

5. That used to happen with PS1 games but thankfully video games have grown way past that point.

Also, the 33rd basically went insane at that point. If you watched an entire city engulfed with sand while the few people left are even willing to eat each other to survive.. yeah... I could totally understand how an entire force would go insane.

Oh, and Martin IS lord death. The game shows that to you by the very end. You are effectively shown that you are the biggest monster in the entire game and you have the choice of what happens to you. Do you escape Dubai and leave a shell of a man who has seen and done far to much, or do you stay and embrace the chaos?

Not sure how big the 33rd was... good question. But again many people were local citizens that became bandits. Just saying.
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People need to realize that games are art. Seriously, it's been proven over and over again. I think it's about time to people to man up and finally say this.
#54WinterstarPosted 5/17/2013 8:49:57 AM
mtjormitch posted...
3. You have shown to never like Dead Space in general. So I refuse to comment on it because it is like hitting a brick wall with a piece of soggy bread.


The irony is delicious.
#55seankimberley42Posted 5/17/2013 10:01:39 AM
mtjormitch posted...
Banana_Mana posted...
For someone who loves story so much, Mitch can't write for s***... There is little structure, and almost no logic in his writing (not arguments, writing)... I would have thought that someone so intent on pushing the benefits of good storytelling would be a more capable writer.


Says the man who probably doesn't read much. I can write quite well. Heck, I can write far better than you ever will! Also, my entire original posts and such were well written, just any time I post I get ragged on for preferring story such as right now.

I mean really! You ever read posts around here? I am one of the few that has clear and concise thought throughout this entire site.

But again, people are most likely just trolling me to piss me off. But hey, I can spell far better than they ever will!


As a REAL professional writer and a defender of those with bad spelling and grammar, your writing offends me.
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Twilight is like Soccer: 2 hours of people running around, no one scoring and millions of fans telling me I don't get it. - Maliice
#56Banana_ManaPosted 5/17/2013 10:18:21 AM
mtjormitch posted...
Banana_Mana posted...
For someone who loves story so much, Mitch can't write for s***... There is little structure, and almost no logic in his writing (not arguments, writing)... I would have thought that someone so intent on pushing the benefits of good storytelling would be a more capable writer.


Says the man who probably doesn't read much. I can write quite well. Heck, I can write far better than you ever will! Also, my entire original posts and such were well written, just any time I post I get ragged on for preferring story such as right now.

I mean really! You ever read posts around here? I am one of the few that has clear and concise thought throughout this entire site.

But again, people are most likely just trolling me to piss me off. But hey, I can spell far better than they ever will!


I read them.

Most of them are acceptably well written. Yours are not.
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#57Banana_ManaPosted 5/17/2013 10:19:24 AM
mtjormitch posted...
I am one of the few that has clear and concise thought throughout this entire site.

!


This is bad writing.
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Do you enjoy gaming related top 10 lists? If so, go here:
http://www.bewaretherobotsquad.com/p/blog-page.html
#58MaDHatPosted 5/17/2013 10:20:20 AM
The answer to this thread is Doom 2.
#59pothocketPosted 5/17/2013 10:23:37 AM
MaDHat posted...
The answer to this thread is Doom 2.


Yep, that is a game with a story.

Any other random games you want to mention?
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well I am not like your dad. I worked as a chef at TGIF-Mattson
#60SunDevil77Posted 5/17/2013 10:24:25 AM
Lol. Naner mana is a teacher, Mitch. You couldn't even get a job as a janitor.
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