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Why don't you guys just purchase another Xbox 360?

#21levyjl1988Posted 5/27/2013 7:56:46 PM
That would suck the day Xbox 360 will no longer be supported. I got like $1000 invested in digital content alone.

The digital era makes me sad as there's really no way of preserving such memories.
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#22LancetJades(Moderator)Posted 5/27/2013 10:28:18 PM
Jpsyence77 posted...
LancetJades posted...
Once MS closes off XBL access for the 360, additional consoles won't save your precious digital content. Unless you're on both the gamertag and the 360 console that the digital content licenses are tied to, you need to be signed into XBL to access it. And since XBL won't be accessable by the 360 anymore...

Your ability to use that content dies with whatever 360 you're currently using when the 360 is dropped by MS.


In the future, I imagine MS will turn off the MP and perhaps a few other features of Live 2.0. Yet still maintaining access to patchs, licenses, games, etc.
A bare bones Live 2.0 as it were. I think the Xbox 360/Live 2.0 may stay profitable for the next 3-5 years...but that's just my guess.


That's a possibility, but this is MS we're talking about. I'm not going to hold out hope for any stay of execution of the 360's online components. Maybe it'll last 3-5 years (though my personal estimates are on the very low end of that scale, or even lower), but I fully expect MS to kill XBL support for the 360 entirely, and with it goes all digital content purchased. They may even do it sooner if the XBone ends up not doing very well while 360 sales remain strong, as "motivation" to "upgrade" to the XBone. Would be a very vindictive move, but one I would expect from MS.

But even if they're merciful and extend full support for another 5 years, all that digital content will die someday, so let's hope people have gotten all they want from that content by the time it happens.

Of course, all of this is true for the PS3 as well, and really, any digital content systems. Unless you break the law and strip the DRM out of the content so it can be used anytime, anywhere, and keep backups for yourself, no "digital" content is ever truly forever. The company that provides it can probably kill it at any time (according to the ToU of the content service).
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Eclipsing power is, at times, not only the instrument of demons, but also of gods.
Lost, but not forgotten.
#23Jpsyence77Posted 5/27/2013 10:38:06 PM
LancetJades posted...
Jpsyence77 posted...
LancetJades posted...
Once MS closes off XBL access for the 360, additional consoles won't save your precious digital content. Unless you're on both the gamertag and the 360 console that the digital content licenses are tied to, you need to be signed into XBL to access it. And since XBL won't be accessable by the 360 anymore...

Your ability to use that content dies with whatever 360 you're currently using when the 360 is dropped by MS.


In the future, I imagine MS will turn off the MP and perhaps a few other features of Live 2.0. Yet still maintaining access to patchs, licenses, games, etc.
A bare bones Live 2.0 as it were. I think the Xbox 360/Live 2.0 may stay profitable for the next 3-5 years...but that's just my guess.


That's a possibility, but this is MS we're talking about. I'm not going to hold out hope for any stay of execution of the 360's online components. Maybe it'll last 3-5 years (though my personal estimates are on the very low end of that scale, or even lower), but I fully expect MS to kill XBL support for the 360 entirely, and with it goes all digital content purchased. They may even do it sooner if the XBone ends up not doing very well while 360 sales remain strong, as "motivation" to "upgrade" to the XBone. Would be a very vindictive move, but one I would expect from MS.

But even if they're merciful and extend full support for another 5 years, all that digital content will die someday, so let's hope people have gotten all they want from that content by the time it happens.

Of course, all of this is true for the PS3 as well, and really, any digital content systems. Unless you break the law and strip the DRM out of the content so it can be used anytime, anywhere, and keep backups for yourself, no "digital" content is ever truly forever. The company that provides it can probably kill it at any time (according to the ToU of the content service).


All of this could lead us to the first major lawsuits involving DRM. Xbox 360 + PS3 owners in a united lawsuit over the games/content we have purchased. Which in turn could establish what the future of digital content will be. I shudder at the craziness it will incite, but am glad to engage in the conversation. I share much of your pessimism but for now, I am trying to simply continue to game until the nasty future decides to invade her ugliness into my denied reality. lol :P
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#24LancetJades(Moderator)Posted 5/27/2013 10:54:00 PM
Jpsyence77 posted...
All of this could lead us to the first major lawsuits involving DRM. Xbox 360 + PS3 owners in a united lawsuit over the games/content we have purchased. Which in turn could establish what the future of digital content will be. I shudder at the craziness it will incite, but am glad to engage in the conversation. I share much of your pessimism but for now, I am trying to simply continue to game until the nasty future decides to invade her ugliness into my denied reality. lol :P


I doubt such a court case would be a victory for the consumers. And to be honest, I'm not sure I would WANT to see a victory for consumers, because what would that mean? That a company like MS is required, by law, to provide this content to people forever? That's a bit unsettling, to think that they may be required by law to provide DLC and XBLA games to people even 50 years from now. And of course, anything less than "forever" isn't really addressing the underlying issue, although something like 100 years may as well be forever as far as anyone who bought content is concerned.


The real issue behind digital content is the DRM. That, for example, DLC on the 360 requires both the gamertag AND 360 console itself to hold the license for a piece of DLC to work offline. If you have one but not the other, it needs to be signed into XBL. If neither, then it can't be used.

All of this DRM puts artificial restrictions on how the content is used, and those restrictions are what condemn the content to be unusable after a period of time once the content provider takes it offline. If simply having the DLC present enabled its use, this wouldn't be an issue because you could copy it onto a USB drive, back it up on your computer, and just store it like that, switching the USB to a new 360 when your old one dies.

Of course, the problem there is there'd be nothing to stop people from just sharing the DLC between each other for free. So that's obviously not viable from the developer's side of things.

The only real middle ground I can see being reached is for companies to issue a final "update" when they stop supporting old content, that removes all restrictions. But this is difficult for a number of reasons:

-The company would have no reason to do so except out of the goodness of their hearts (hint: no companies have this mythical "goodness" because it doesn't earn money)

-Even if they put it in the ToS for their products, they wouldn't necessarily be held to doing it. They'd probably find some way to fight it in court, or word it in such a way that they could just say "it's not legally binding." Basically, they could just plain lie about it.

-The content isn't owned by just Microsoft (if owned at all by them). All the individual game developers that made the content would have to sign off on it, so while they may not all be as evil and greedy as MS, there's little guarantee that it would happen for most, much less ALL content.

-The previous reason won't happen because there's financial incentive to NOT provide that content. They can release an updated version or a collection, complete with all DLC, on the next console, charging full price again even if you own it. Even if they won't, there's still no financial reason TO do it, which means that, as businesses that exist to make money, they won't do it.

So in conclusion, what I'm getting at here is that "digital" content is inherently a limited-lifespan thing. Companies like it because all the DRM they add to it, plus the lack of overhead, means it's content they control and can kill whenever they decide to. Buy digital content, from anywhere and for anything, at your own peril. Caveat emptor.
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Eclipsing power is, at times, not only the instrument of demons, but also of gods.
Lost, but not forgotten.
#25Jpsyence77Posted 5/27/2013 11:08:14 PM
I am always for the consumer in cases versus corporations. But I agree we are trekking into new territory and standards need to be addressed.
I have also thought about a "final update" as you stated, and think it might work. Once the 360 production comes to an end, MS would at least know with the last 360 produced... the conversation would eventually end.
I would be interested in hearing from someone with a law background in copyright, consumer protection, etc. that might answer a few questions.
Since no real laws ( as far as I know ) have been written anywhere in the world, specifying a consumers right to their digital content.
If your assertion that digital content limited lifespan, at the very least we can come to a conclusion on what all the entails.
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#26kingwutuguPosted 5/27/2013 11:34:22 PM
b/c they have kill switches and once the servers are gone they will activate.
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#27ChezDispenserPosted 5/27/2013 11:41:22 PM
Garatuzo posted...
Shut the f*** up.

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#28LancetJades(Moderator)Posted 5/28/2013 12:17:34 AM
Jpsyence77 posted...
I am always for the consumer in cases versus corporations. But I agree we are trekking into new territory and standards need to be addressed.
I have also thought about a "final update" as you stated, and think it might work. Once the 360 production comes to an end, MS would at least know with the last 360 produced... the conversation would eventually end.
I would be interested in hearing from someone with a law background in copyright, consumer protection, etc. that might answer a few questions.
Since no real laws ( as far as I know ) have been written anywhere in the world, specifying a consumers right to their digital content.
If your assertion that digital content limited lifespan, at the very least we can come to a conclusion on what all the entails.


But it's not really an issue of what MS wants to do. It's an issue of whether or not the individual IP/copyright/whatever holders of each piece of content want. MS can't just send out an update removing all of these DRM protections the DLC and XBLA games and such have, or at least I assume they couldn't. There's probably contract stuff i there preventing it.

More to the point, though, is that MS WON'T do that, even if they legally can. There's no financial incentive in it to just "unlock" everyone's content. They'll just leave it there to languish and eventually die out, knowing that when people's 360s begin to die and they lose content and games are permanently crippled and incomplete without the myriad DLC and patches that used to be available, they'll look towards new products such as the XBone, products that are making MS money (unlike the old, dead system), and products they can sell a new plethora of digital content for that will, in turn, die out someday.

The difference with the XBone is that when eventually it becomes outdated and a new console released (or if its discontinued due to lack of consumer support, as unlikely as that may be), it's even easier to kill it off completely and instantly: remove the validation servers, and within 24 hours, all XBone consoles are useless. Even your physical media won't be of any value to you anymore. The only hope at that point is hackers cracking the console and releasing custom firmware to bypass the system, or at worst, releasing a way to spoof the validation servers.

Those all are the dangers of both "digital content" and intrusive DRM that requires either constant or periodic online connections to a validation server. It only serves to give the company in charge (in this case, MS) even more control over not only HOW you use the physical products you purchased, but also dictate WHEN you're to STOP using them.

EA already does that by deactivating the servers for their games after a year, to prompt people to buy the newest release the next year. Despite the fact that P2P online multiplayer is not only possible, but almost all other games have it as a function via XBL, even if there are (or were) official servers at one time. It's a move entirely designed to control consumers' ability to use the product the purchased, and to kill it off when the company decides its time for consumers to buy the next release of the product. The XBone's obtrusive DRM system (daily online validation) is the next logical step in this anti-consumer march.
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Eclipsing power is, at times, not only the instrument of demons, but also of gods.
Lost, but not forgotten.
#29goldenboy1867Posted 5/28/2013 1:15:04 AM
ORRRR get a PS3 or PS4 which is/ will be much better :D
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