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EA and BioWare...

#11kungfuj0Posted 10/4/2013 12:47:50 AM
I blame EA.

We would probably JUST NOW be getting ME3 if EA weren't in the picture. Yes, the dev time would have been longer on it because of less resources, but I'd bet my left nut that the game would have been better overall without EA's influence.

Same thing with Dragon Age. The DELAY of DA3 is longer than the entire dev time of DA2. I have no idea what anyone was thinking with that, and IMO it is a miracle that DA2 was as good as it was (not that it was good...) with that short of an amount of time to work on it.

And I can't talk much about SW:TOR as I simply refuse to touch MMOs, but I will say this. If Bioware is operating on their own, I doubt that there even would have been a TOR. More likely we would have gotten either a different SW game or perhaps even KOTOR 3, which so many of us would love to see.

The bottom line in all of this to me is that while there has been SOME good since EA came into the picture (ME's gameplay improvements), I think that the bad far outweighs the good. If I could go back in time and somehow blow up that little merger before it happened, I would do so in a heartbeat. It might mean that I have to wait longer for my precious Mass Effect, but I've never been one who minded waiting if it meant I was getting a better game because of it.
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And to think...people laughed at me when I said MS could out-EA EA any day of the week.
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#12scoobydoobydontPosted 10/4/2013 1:54:56 AM
Both are to blame. Casey Hudson is the most to blame, though, and Walters is entirely Hudson's choice, EA didn't force Hudson to hire that hack.

TimeShinigami posted...
EA forced the MP, which turned out great.


It was serviceable at best, and it drained resources away from SP. Don't pretend it was a good thing, EA is still a villain and MP was the wrong call. They should have made a spin-off that was MP centric if they really thought it was worthwhile, instead they compromised the last entry of a trilogy, and it shows on every level.
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#13Banana_ManaPosted 10/4/2013 2:46:20 AM
Nobody killed Bioware.

Still brilliant.
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#14ShuraYukihimePosted 10/4/2013 3:01:26 AM
Lets look at Mass Effect. How many multi part series had Bioware completed prior to that? I maintain that people who complained about Mass Effect 3 have played maybe one or two Bioware games previously.

Did ME3 "need" multiplayer, no. Neither did Goldeneye 64 or Gears of War. Two games where multiplayer was tacked on at the end. Meanwhile ME3's multiplayer had one of the more successful attempts at a "horde" mode. More so than Gears 3 even.

We also need to stop judging the console version of these games. Dragon Age for example is far far better on PC and you can really see how much it was hobbled for consoles.

Did EA ruin Bioware, no. Did Bioware ruin, Bioware, no. If anything "ruined" Bioware it was jaded gamers and/or limited consoles.
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#15scoobydoobydontPosted 10/4/2013 3:04:39 AM
ShuraYukihime posted...
Lets look at Mass Effect. How many multi part series had Bioware completed prior to that? I maintain that people who complained about Mass Effect 3 have played maybe one or two Bioware games previously.

Did ME3 "need" multiplayer, no. Neither did Goldeneye 64 or Gears of War. Two games where multiplayer was tacked on at the end. Meanwhile ME3's multiplayer had one of the more successful attempts at a "horde" mode. More so than Gears 3 even.

We also need to stop judging the console version of these games. Dragon Age for example is far far better on PC and you can really see how much it was hobbled for consoles.

Did EA ruin Bioware, no. Did Bioware ruin, Bioware, no. If anything "ruined" Bioware it was jaded gamers and/or limited consoles.


Stop, you're making me dizzy with all this spin.
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"I don't hate people, I just feel better when they're not around." - Charles Bukowski
http://i.imgur.com/mRh5ifp.png
#16ShuraYukihimePosted 10/4/2013 3:05:24 AM
scoobydoobydont posted...
ShuraYukihime posted...
Lets look at Mass Effect. How many multi part series had Bioware completed prior to that? I maintain that people who complained about Mass Effect 3 have played maybe one or two Bioware games previously.

Did ME3 "need" multiplayer, no. Neither did Goldeneye 64 or Gears of War. Two games where multiplayer was tacked on at the end. Meanwhile ME3's multiplayer had one of the more successful attempts at a "horde" mode. More so than Gears 3 even.

We also need to stop judging the console version of these games. Dragon Age for example is far far better on PC and you can really see how much it was hobbled for consoles.

Did EA ruin Bioware, no. Did Bioware ruin, Bioware, no. If anything "ruined" Bioware it was jaded gamers and/or limited consoles.


Stop, you're making me dizzy with all this spin.


Sorry, I keep breaking the damn tilt a whirl.
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I'm searching the city for sci fi wasabi.
#17cifer520Posted 10/4/2013 3:55:02 AM
brunbbmerc posted...
a lot of me1s rpg elements were stupid

me2 and 3 are definitely better than 1. and 3 didnt need multiplayer but it wasnt bad. it shouldnt have affected the main game though


They were...stupid? Maybe you didn't like the Mako and that's understandable but other than that I don't see how it's all that different from other RPGs. The inventory system also seems to be a big complaint but what people don't seem to realize is that you got so much gear because you were supposed to spread the wealth between several characters. If you didn't have the patience to work on their lockers in between missions, or rather if you aren't patient in general it's the wrong game for you.
#18ShuraYukihimePosted 10/4/2013 4:35:00 AM
cifer520 posted...
brunbbmerc posted...
a lot of me1s rpg elements were stupid

me2 and 3 are definitely better than 1. and 3 didnt need multiplayer but it wasnt bad. it shouldnt have affected the main game though


They were...stupid? Maybe you didn't like the Mako and that's understandable but other than that I don't see how it's all that different from other RPGs. The inventory system also seems to be a big complaint but what people don't seem to realize is that you got so much gear because you were supposed to spread the wealth between several characters. If you didn't have the patience to work on their lockers in between missions, or rather if you aren't patient in general it's the wrong game for you.


The inventory system was just terrible. There is no explaining it away.

Still waiting on all those multi part series Bioware completed.
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I'm searching the city for sci fi wasabi.
#19ACHEEKSMALLOYPosted 10/4/2013 4:56:01 AM
mass effect 3 is friggin amazing so noone killed bioware.
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#20Dragon NexusPosted 10/4/2013 5:33:21 AM
xTheSiskox posted...
Crimsin_Giblet posted...
Mass Effect 2 was really stripped down in terms of RPG elements in comparison to Mass Effect. I was always under the impression that EA had a hand in that.


It was less RPG elements and more "hack this wallsafe or hack this door" and play those symbol matching mini games with a time limit in every mission. That is one thing I'm glad isn't in the 3rd game at least.

It's basically like the first game had all those RPG elements and all the weapons you could purchase along with upgrades and you just had to worry about weapon overheating and a lot less about ammo, then they tried to re-invent that in the 3rd game.

If anything I think what killed Bioware somewhat was not so much EA but the huge backlash from the various gam endings where people expected shepard to be, well, sitting on a beach and being all happy that the reapers were dealt with. But now with Mass Effect 4 being actively worked on and most likely being released for the Xbox One and PS4 we'll see how that goes.


Personally, I *liked* the inclusion of heat clips.
The overheating in the first game kind of acted like a combined clip ize and reload anyway. If you put all the high damage mods on a sniper rifle, for instance, you basically made a bolt action sniper with high damage since every shot everheated the thing. Or you could made it cooler with a rapid fire but less damage.

But using clips...there's something satisfying about pressing a reload button.

As much as I miss the RPG elements in ME1, they were a little over done. Getting so many points to distribute felt a little over the top, and the inventory system was pretty bad. 80% of the equipment you found just went into the junk bin to be sold later. I'd rather have infrequent but useful drops rather than constant useless vendor trash. Not being able to customise your crew was annoying too...but it annoyed me more in DA2 (especially dumb in DA2 if you didn't have Sebastian, since every bow you found was useless unless you were an archer yourself)

<SPOILER TERRITORY FOR ME3'S ENDING>
As for the ending, you're trivialising it a bit. People would have accepted an unhappy or bittersweet ending if it made sense. Fans were annoyed at the awful "revelation" of the Reapers origins and purpose. They went from "We exist in a realm beyond your comprehension. You exist because we allow it. And you will die because we demand it" to "Yo dawg! I heard AIs are gonna kill you all, so we made AIs to kill you all before you can make AIs that will kill you all!". The original cut also doomed the entire galaxy. Destroying every relay basically stranded everyone in the system they happened to be in at the time, meaning every ship that fought in the Sol system was trapped there. Think Earth could have sustained all of those people after the Reapers destroyed so much of it? As well as its own people? Also why did Joker leave the fight? Clearly the planet he lands on isn't in the Sol system, so he used a relay to jump away before you activate the citadel. Coward.
This is why the ending needed expanding upon or even re-writing. And I've barely scratched the surface as to why the ending was so poor even on a most basic level of writing.

I loved ME3 from beginning to Earth. But honestly, anything from landing on Earth to the end was soooo awful.
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