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RGB PS3 Setting: Full or Limited

#1ZenGamer64Posted 12/16/2011 8:31:20 AM
Is it better to have the RGB setting set to "full" or "limited"?
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#2VarronPosted 12/16/2011 8:54:59 AM
limited on HDTV, full on computer monitors
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Who dares, wins.
#3BeefEasterPosted 12/16/2011 9:28:19 AM
yeah
#4ZenGamer64(Topic Creator)Posted 12/16/2011 9:48:31 AM
Okay - just ran across this article:


The PS3 and HDMI connections and black levels are a tricky beast. There are a lot of different factors at play, so we sort of need to break it down

To start, you should check out this article over at Audioholics, which does a great job of explaining many of the more confusing aspects of HDMI video when it comes to black levels, RGB vs. YCbCr (YPbPr) and the new x.v.Color standard that isn't being used yet, but could be in the not too distant future.

So to start, in the PS3's BD/DVD Settings menu, you should definitely set the BD/DVD Video output format to Y/Cb/Cr rather than RGB. As the Audioholics article details, all Blu-ray and DVD movies are authored using the Y/Cb/Cr standard, so that is what you want to use to play them back. You'll also want to go into the PS3's Display settings and turn the "Super-White" option to On. Despite the weird "super-white" name, this setting enables the PS3 to send below black and above white information (something it couldn't do when the PS3 first came out, but was added in a firmware update )
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No self, no problems.
#5ZenGamer64(Topic Creator)Posted 12/16/2011 9:50:58 AM
Continued:


Now, with those settings in place, you can use any DVD or Blu-ray calibration disc to properly set your contrast (white level), brightness (black level) and standard colour, sharpness and tint controls. You can use Avia, Digital Video Essentials or just a THX movie or some other setup/calibration disc. All will have at least the basic contrast, brightness, etc. test patterns and you'll be able to properly dial in your TV's settings for your particular viewing environment (ie. how much light you have in the room).

After that, you shouldn't need to touch those user controls for your TV anymore.

But, of course, it isn't quite that simple. PS3 and PS2 games come out of the PS3's HDMI port using RGB rather than Y/Cb/Cr and that opens up some more settings in both the PS3's menus and in your TV's menus.

PS3 games actually use the full 0-255 range of the RGB signal. As such, for PS3 games, in the Display menu of the PS3, you should technically set the RGB Full Range option to Full.

Now, you need to set your TV's HDMI black levels to match. To do that, with your Samsung TV, you need to go into the TV's Setup Menu. In that menu, there is an option called, HDMI Black Level. Rather counter-intuitively, the correct setting is "Normal" rather than "Low" when you are using a full 0-255 range RGB signal, so set it to "Normal" for PS3 games.

Now, PS2 games are a different story. PS2 games were made before the HDMI standard ever existed and in order to make the compatible with all the old TVs that never had HDMI inputs, they were made using the limited 16-235 RGB range that mimics the Y/Cb/Cr standard.

So when you play a PS2 game on your PS3, you need to set the PS3's Display Menu RGB Full Range option to "Limited" rather than "Full".

And, of course, this ends up mucking things up for your TV now too! So you have to go into your TV's Setup Menu again and set the HDMI Black level to "Low" now

If you're wondering why it's like this - here's the deal.

The PS3's RGB Full Range option in the Display menu describes things in a way that makes sense. "Full" means you're outputting the full 0-255 range and "Limited" means you're outputting the limited 16-235 range.

I
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No self, no problems.
#6ZenGamer64(Topic Creator)Posted 12/16/2011 9:51:38 AM
f you use a limited source though (like a PS2 game), but have the RGB option set to "full", well the PS3 gets confused. Now the lowest level it ever gets is a 16, but it thinks it's supposed to be getting the full range, so it shows that 16 as a level 16 luminence (which is grey). But since that is the lowest luminence possible from the PS2 game, it should actually appear black. When you set the RGB option to "Limited" the PS3 understands now and it outputs a level 16 signal as black rather than grey.

The TV's Setup Menu HDMI Black Level names are the confusing ones. Here, "Normal" actually means the TV is expecting the full 0-255 range. So output a 16 from a limited source and it will show grey because it thinks there should be 16 other shades lower than that! The "Low" setting makes the TV expect the limited 16-235 range.

So there you have it! Use Y/Cb/Cr for any Blu-ray or DVD movie since that is how they are recorded on the disc - and you don't have to worry about any "HDMI Black Level" nonsense on the TV side - it'll just work the way it should

For PS3 games, the correct PS3 Display menu setting is RGB Full Range set to "Full" and in the TV's Setup menu, the HDMI Black Level option is set to "Normal" to match.

For PS2 games, the correct PS3 Display menu setting is RGB Full Range set to "Limited" and in the TV's Setup menu, the HDMI Black Level option is set to "Low" to match.

You can also just leave the PS3's RGB option set to "Limited" and the TV's HDMI Black Level option set to "Low" all the time. You'll lose a little bit of shadow detail in PS3 games, but it'll save you the hassle of having to switch back and forth all the time If you never play PS2 games on your PS3 though, leave the PS3 on "Full" and the TV on "Normal".
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No self, no problems.
#7archizzyPosted 12/16/2011 9:54:31 AM
ZenGamer64 posted...
Okay - just ran across this article:


The PS3 and HDMI connections and black levels are a tricky beast. There are a lot of different factors at play, so we sort of need to break it down

To start, you should check out this article over at Audioholics, which does a great job of explaining many of the more confusing aspects of HDMI video when it comes to black levels, RGB vs. YCbCr (YPbPr) and the new x.v.Color standard that isn't being used yet, but could be in the not too distant future.

So to start, in the PS3's BD/DVD Settings menu, you should definitely set the BD/DVD Video output format to Y/Cb/Cr rather than RGB. As the Audioholics article details, all Blu-ray and DVD movies are authored using the Y/Cb/Cr standard, so that is what you want to use to play them back. You'll also want to go into the PS3's Display settings and turn the "Super-White" option to On. Despite the weird "super-white" name, this setting enables the PS3 to send below black and above white information (something it couldn't do when the PS3 first came out, but was added in a firmware update )


Superwhite in conjunction with the BD/DVD output being put manually to YCC instead of auto is the only way to get BTB and WTW info.

Just so you know (I didn't click the link so maybe they covered this) but the limited/full setting is completely ignored by the PS3 during blu-ray playback. This is why even if you have a tv that can accept PC levels you really should calibrate for video levels because unless you keep separate input settings your tv would be off when you watched tv or movies with your PS3 as you would be receiving video levels on a tv calibrated for PC levels.
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PSN ID: sled_dogs76
60" Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO151FD, Yamaha RX-V3900 A/V Receiver, Oppo DV983-H player. Coming soon: 2 Seaton Submersives from Mark Seaton
#8archizzyPosted 12/16/2011 10:06:20 AM
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1133542

There is a short but easy to understand thread that covers some of the stuff. There are many other threads as well on avsforum that are much more accurate and detailed than the audioholics thread.

The PS3 should of labled them PC levels and video levels. A calibrated display receiving PC levels from the PS3 should be exactly the same as a calibrated display receiving video levels. The PS3 simply remaps the values.
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PSN ID: sled_dogs76
60" Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO151FD, Yamaha RX-V3900 A/V Receiver, Oppo DV983-H player. Coming soon: 2 Seaton Submersives from Mark Seaton