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Which is worse on game creators: buying a used game or illegally pirating a game

#391Garfield64(Topic Creator)Posted 11/11/2012 3:59:43 PM
rigice posted...
Technically with the used game, they already made money on it. Getting it free without paying for it however...


Four Kids:

1st Kid goes to store see's brand new $60 game for $54 used and buys it.
2nd Kid goes to store see's brand new $60 game for $54 used and buys it.

3rd Kid pirates game decides it's garbage and deletes it.
4th Kid pirates game LOVES it, wants DLC and Online goes to store and buys it New.

What just happened?

Kids that pirates just contributed $60 to game development.

Kids that bought used took $108 THAT WOULD HAVE went to game development and instead gave it to some greedy scum sucking company. The company that developed the game just got robbed of $108 of money THAT WOULD Have went to them.

So Pirating +$60 Buying used -$108.

This is why buying used hurts while pirating does not.

When they pirate NO potential money is lost because no potential money was going to be spent. When they buy used REAL money is exchanged that otherwise WOULD have really went to the developer.
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#392AsellusPosted 11/11/2012 4:00:18 PM
According to what epic said awhile back, pirating. Its one of the main reasons why epic has that "**** it" mentality when it came to releasing more gears of war games on the PC (and also why these days most pc gamers tend to hate the **** out of epic...for being "traitors" or something I don't know).

Fortnite is Epic's first Unreal Engine 4 game and it'll ship "exclusively for the PC," Epic Games' Cliff Bleszinksi said today during a San Diego Comic-Con 2012 panel. "We're here and we're announcing that this is a PC-designed game, it's shipping exclusively for the PC," he told a crowd of attendees.

"Next-gen's here. It's been here. It's a high-end PC," Bleszinski said. He added that the dudebro-free Fortnite didn't "make sense" for Unreal Engine 3, and cheered PCs as being part of Epic's "heritage."
-- http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/12/fortnite-is-epics-first-unreal-engine-4-game-heading-exclusive/

Yeah, Epic's kind of schizo like that. Or maybe it's just CliffyB...
#393Garfield64(Topic Creator)Posted 11/11/2012 4:02:48 PM
TheBaronBoom posted...
I'll post this again in hopes that this topic will die... -_-'

A BUNCH OF INCORRECT INFORMATION

there.... case closed now let this topic die and everyone can get to more important matters.... like which Final Fantasy is the best or if Dragon Age 3 will be any good...


You posted this twice in my topic so I thought I'd tell you, you're wrong.
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WARNING: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/user.php?=2426382
Is a very well known Troll, please do not fall for their shenanigans!
#394monkeypahngPosted 11/11/2012 4:06:31 PM
Garfield64 posted...
rigice posted...
Technically with the used game, they already made money on it. Getting it free without paying for it however...


Four Kids:

1st Kid goes to store see's brand new $60 game for $54 used and buys it.
2nd Kid goes to store see's brand new $60 game for $54 used and buys it.

3rd Kid pirates game decides it's garbage and deletes it.
4th Kid pirates game LOVES it, wants DLC and Online goes to store and buys it New.

What just happened?

Kids that pirates just contributed $60 to game development.

Kids that bought used took $108 THAT WOULD HAVE went to game development and instead gave it to some greedy scum sucking company. The company that developed the game just got robbed of $108 of money THAT WOULD Have went to them.

So Pirating +$60 Buying used -$108.

This is why buying used hurts while pirating does not.

When they pirate NO potential money is lost because no potential money was going to be spent. When they buy used REAL money is exchanged that otherwise WOULD have really went to the developer.


Your example is terrible and flawed.
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#395CooperRCPosted 11/11/2012 4:07:13 PM
Garfield64 posted...
rigice posted...
Technically with the used game, they already made money on it. Getting it free without paying for it however...


Four Kids:

1st Kid goes to store see's brand new $60 game for $54 used and buys it.
2nd Kid goes to store see's brand new $60 game for $54 used and buys it.

3rd Kid pirates game decides it's garbage and deletes it.
4th Kid pirates game LOVES it, wants DLC and Online goes to store and buys it New.

What just happened?

Kids that pirates just contributed $60 to game development.

Kids that bought used took $108 THAT WOULD HAVE went to game development and instead gave it to some greedy scum sucking company. The company that developed the game just got robbed of $108 of money THAT WOULD Have went to them.

So Pirating +$60 Buying used -$108.

This is why buying used hurts while pirating does not.

When they pirate NO potential money is lost because no potential money was going to be spent. When they buy used REAL money is exchanged that otherwise WOULD have really went to the developer.


Stop making up fantasy scenarios.

First of all, you already lost because 2 people had to buy the game (and then sell it to Gamestop) in order for there to be 2 used copies available.

Second, pirates do not buy anything. They pirate because they believe that various media is worth zero dollars and they are entitled to all of it for free. They think that the creators of such media need to find other ways to make money off of it.
#396jguswPosted 11/11/2012 4:15:15 PM
Garfield64 posted...
rigice posted...
Technically with the used game, they already made money on it. Getting it free without paying for it however...


Four Kids:

1st Kid goes to store see's brand new $60 game for $54 used and buys it.
2nd Kid goes to store see's brand new $60 game for $54 used and buys it.

3rd Kid pirates game decides it's garbage and deletes it.
4th Kid pirates game LOVES it, wants DLC and Online goes to store and buys it New.

What just happened?

Kids that pirates just contributed $60 to game development.

Kids that bought used took $108 THAT WOULD HAVE went to game development and instead gave it to some greedy scum sucking company. The company that developed the game just got robbed of $108 of money THAT WOULD Have went to them.

So Pirating +$60 Buying used -$108.

This is why buying used hurts while pirating does not.

When they pirate NO potential money is lost because no potential money was going to be spent. When they buy used REAL money is exchanged that otherwise WOULD have really went to the developer.


Nice try. I can easily add:
5th kid bought used game. Love it and bought DLC and Online PASS.
6th kid bought used game. Love it. Bought it NEW and purchased DLC.

I personally bought Mass Effect (360) used. Loved it. Bought 2 copies of Mass Effect 2 (360) Collector's edition, Mass Effect 3 Collector's edition, Mass Effect 1 (PC) and then Mass Effect 2 (PC). I bought them all NEW! My only used copy is Mass Effect (360).

You assume people that buy used will not buy new or contribute to the developer and then assume people that pirate games are going to love the game and in turn contribute to the company.

It is easier to believe that the person that is pirating, which is already stealing (aka breaking the law), will not contribute to the developer, since they already had no intention do to so.

At least buying used it legal.
#397MadDewgPosted 11/11/2012 4:16:01 PM
Asellus posted...
According to what epic said awhile back, pirating. Its one of the main reasons why epic has that "**** it" mentality when it came to releasing more gears of war games on the PC (and also why these days most pc gamers tend to hate the **** out of epic...for being "traitors" or something I don't know).

Fortnite is Epic's first Unreal Engine 4 game and it'll ship "exclusively for the PC," Epic Games' Cliff Bleszinksi said today during a San Diego Comic-Con 2012 panel. "We're here and we're announcing that this is a PC-designed game, it's shipping exclusively for the PC," he told a crowd of attendees.

"Next-gen's here. It's been here. It's a high-end PC," Bleszinski said. He added that the dudebro-free Fortnite didn't "make sense" for Unreal Engine 3, and cheered PCs as being part of Epic's "heritage."
-- http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/12/fortnite-is-epics-first-unreal-engine-4-game-heading-exclusive/

Yeah, Epic's kind of schizo like that. Or maybe it's just CliffyB...


Lmao!!! Yeah I have no comment on that one. Guess thats just cliffy being cliffy.
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GTag:MadDogg730 PSN:lMadDogg Playin' bayonetta, dungeon fighter live, gears of war 3, tales of graces, borderlands, dust: an elysian tail.
#398TheBaronBoomPosted 11/11/2012 4:19:24 PM
Garfield64 posted...
TheBaronBoom posted...
I'll post this again in hopes that this topic will die... -_-'

A BUNCH OF INCORRECT INFORMATION

there.... case closed now let this topic die and everyone can get to more important matters.... like which Final Fantasy is the best or if Dragon Age 3 will be any good...


You posted this twice in my topic so I thought I'd tell you, you're wrong.


Ah I see.... Enjoy yourself are we?
Revelling in the maddness that you have created?
Loving the two facedness of people?
I understand so I'll leave you to it.... but before I go....

My information is correct, logical, and irrefutable.
So show some respect.
If you have evidence that proves me wrong then please show it... otherwise....
think of your next topic that could start the "chaos" you so desire
Protip: The best way to start a topic for a flame war is an Opinion based topic such as "I think FFX sucked ass but what are your thoughts everyone?"
#399AsellusPosted 11/11/2012 4:31:08 PM
You conveniently neglect to point out that a LOT of people trade in used games so as to be able to buy NEW ones.

People argue this a lot but while I certainly won't deny it happens I have to wonder about just how common it really is. People who trade a lot of games seem to me like they'd probably be pretty comfortable with the prospect - why pay more for the same thing and doubly so when "Gamestop Membership" or etc. will give them further discounts towards the used copy?

Outside of say special promotions like the "Get x% extra credit when trading in towards fill-in-the-blank" the only reason I can think of would just be impatience.

Another point...
Are used car sales hurting the new car industry ? What about video-rentals, or even the library..?


Used cars are seen as inferior products to new cars. Wear and tear. Most libraries don't carry new books and certainly not in significant quantity (queue fond memories of waiting half of a year on the reserve list to read "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire").

As for video rentals... eh, not really quite the same. There's a big difference between the rental fee and what new copies charge and the rental copy is inherently temporary. Rental outlets buy a small mountain of copies when titles are new and start selling them off as the initial rush dies down. While they do do used-movie buying and selling to some degree it is rather interesting it's nowhere near being the industry that exists around used games.

Used games do NOT hurt the industry.
Crappy-mediocre games that suck hurt the industry. And whose fault is that, but the Developers that make them.
You don't hear Developers of Skyrim, Fallout, Halo, Gears of War, GTA4, RDR, et all complaining about used game sales...
Nah, its usually the Developers that make crappy games that complain.


"Red Deadís DLC was specifically designed to break the used game sales problem that many publishers face.

"The theory was, let consumers know there's a reason to hold onto your games because the bulk of impact of used game sales on front line sales is in the first six weeks," Zelnick noted. "So if we can get people to hold onto their game for the first six weeks, the titles aren't in the stores in the used game section, which means people have to buy the front line title from us."

-- http://www.industrygamers.com/news/rockstar-dlc-intended-to-combat-used-game-sales/

Epic's Rod Fergusson defends pre-launch DLC development and argues it's a more pleasant alternative to Online Pass systems when it comes to "fighting" used games sales.

...

Fergusson went on to argue that DLC, and presumably he means good DLC rather than the largely inconsequential stuff we've seen so far, is a preferable alternative to gated multiplayer systems, like EA's controversial Online Pass program. A carrot rather than a stick, if you will. "It's less about shipping what's left over. It's not about, 'Oh, we had this map left over'... it's keeping the disc in the tray," he said. "In a used game culture that you have to actively fight against, I think DLC is one of the ways that you do that."

Used game sales, a long standing part of the industry, seems to have replaced piracy as the industry boogeyman of choice, with numerous developers blaming them for poor, or lower than expected, game sales in recent years.

There is rather a lot of DLC planned for Gears of War 3.

-- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114279-Epic-DLC-Needed-to-Fight-Used-Game-Culture

Couldn't find any public statements from Bethesda on the matter but that's two out of three on "Used game sales are harmful and here's how we're trying to fight it" there.
#400Jinzo 111887Posted 11/11/2012 4:44:01 PM(edited)
From: jgusw | Posted: 11/11/2012 6:15:15 PM
1.)Nice try. I can easily add:
5th kid bought used game. Love it and bought DLC and Online PASS.
6th kid bought used game. Love it. Bought it NEW and purchased DLC.

2.)You assume people that buy used will not buy new or contribute to the developer and then assume people that pirate games are going to love the game and in turn contribute to the company.

3.)It is easier to believe that the person that is pirating, which is already stealing (aka breaking the law), will not contribute to the developer, since they already had no intention do to so.

At least buying used it legal.


1.)Let's also add kids 7 and kid 8
Kid 7 sees the game uses the online pass, decides the game sucks because the company has no faith in their product and decides to buy another game without the pass new. (Lost sale caused by something trying to fight it. Irony at it's finest.)
Kid 8 sees a game that uses an online pass available both new and used. Kid 8 would normally buy new, but decides to buy used out of spite.

2..) I'm a "kid 7." There are some franchise I like, but I take the online pass to mean I company doesn't believe in the product they are selling, which is why I avoid them. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who's like this. This means those passes might be getting them some money from used games, but the question is: How many new sales are they losing from the Kid 7 and Kid 8 type people? Even with the online pass, they don't get as much as if the game was sold new.

3.)Unless they come up with anti-piracy measures that encourage people to buy legal games. Earthbound was pretty good example of a game with DRM that tortured pirates. I've had my SNES Earthbound cart since the mid 1990's, and it still works.
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I miss the Golden Age of gaming that died in the last few years. Yeah, we got better graphics, but it's not worth recent changes if you ask me.