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Which is worse on game creators: buying a used game or illegally pirating a game

#41rofflchopperPosted 11/11/2012 3:56:45 AM
Pirating obviously. Because then no one bought the game in the first place so someone else could buy it used. lol
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#42RintonPosted 11/11/2012 3:59:09 AM
nonexistinghero posted...
Kind of a hard decision:

- Used can possibly be harder on game creators, because it encourages games stores to try to sell more used games and some stores will go pretty far with this. On the other hand, creators/publishers may be able to offer special deals with the store in the future (as in, sponsorship or events so that the stores will gain more customers).

- Pirated games are free. You aren't giving anyone any money with it. There's a decent amount of people that pirate a copy as a try-out version, then if they like it enough, they buy it. So in a way, it serves as a full-game demo for them. For good, quality games, this can actually improve retail sales. Aside from that, most pirates who pirate it, like it, but never buy the full copy, would never have bought it in the first place. The latter group can be hurtful to a developer, not in terms of money, but in terms of pride. Tons of people are downloading your game for free, enjoying it, but aren't supporting you. And many of them bash it as well. I can imagine that can be a pretty big blow. Especially if the actual sales are a bit low, like 20k or so, but you see torrents with 10 times as many seeders/leechers.


I'm not sure if it's indicative of the whole community, but I don't know a single game pirate that consistently buys games they like after they pirate them. I've got a friend or two that very rarely will purchase a game they like because they decide they want to invest in the multiplayer, but by and large thieves talk a big game and then never actually spend the money because there's no reason to. While I was a PC gamer for a while and an online thief, I got to watch my favorite thing die because people like me were stealing instead of buying. These days i'm a console gamer (because PC gaming is still virtually dead) and buy new every chance I get (I live on an island, and sometimes I can only find used games) because I understand how much damage it does. That said, I know maybe 10 different people that never learned their lesson, and still pirate 19 out of 20 games they play simply because they can.
#43ChaingunmasterPosted 11/11/2012 4:01:37 AM
Asellus posted...
I would venture to say that developers hate pirating more since that is illegal and no better than physically stealing a game.

You would be wrong.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-17-lionhead-pre-owned-worse-than-pc-piracy

I'd go with used sales simply because a person who buys a used game is a lost customer, they're in the store, money in hand, buying the game for maybe $5 less than what it sales for new. You'd better believe that makes publishers see red.

And outright stealing from them is better how? Goddamn the logic of somer of the people here, it's riiculous.
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#44laszlo_olzsalPosted 11/11/2012 4:01:57 AM
A used game was originally purchased LEGALLY at full price when it was new. Profits were had then...what happens several months after launch to that copy is marginal compared against the total sales of that title.

Piracy that occurs at launch prospective "would be consumers" is a huge loss to the developer, publisher & retailer since each ILLEGAL pirated copy of a game counts as a LOST SALE to a company. 100,000 lost sales at launch = millions of dollars lost. This is mind boggling how you all don't see this.
#45CallmegePosted 11/11/2012 4:04:26 AM
Rinton posted...
Callmege posted...
They're both as bad as each other. Either way no money goes back to the people who made the game.

And the argument that piracy is worse because its illegal demonstrates something inherently wrong with modern society. Things shouldn't be bad because they're illegal... they should be illegal because they're bad. What if tomorrow your government decided it was illegal to be black... or Jewish. Would it then be morally wrong to be black or Jewish?

hockeybub89 posted...
I would venture to say that developers hate pirating more since that is illegal and no better than physically stealing a game.


That's some terrible logic you have there. A physical theft is actually depriving a company (the retailer) of a product they have payed for. Physically stealing things causes them to lose money, printing just means the developer hasn't made any money.


I think you're framing this in the same way the TC is, and that's without looking at the whole story. Today games require online passes to go online, and offer DLC. Most games come incomplete, and practically require you to buy DLC to get the full experience. There are more opportunities these days to charge the consumer with used games than there are stolen games. The developers are better off with someone who bought used because DLC and online passes mean gamers WILL most likely (or are the very least more likely to) be charged after retail, regardless of whether it's used. Pirated games (unless piracy has come further since I stopped stealing) disallow the use of DLC (on consoles anyway) and online play. It's basically a dead end as far as future sales are concerned.

As to "theft versus piracy," you're not just stealing a disc and some packaging when you steal a video game out of a store. Developers spend MILLIONS of dollars on these titles, and rely on recouping costs via retail sales, DLC and online passes/gimmicks. On disc or not, you're still depriving that company of potential profit, and either way it's immoral.


I'm sorry but you're comely wrong that piracy is a dead end as far as future sales are concerned. As someone who both pirates and buys preowned I can safely say its you who's not looking at the whole story but rather is only looking at it through the moral angle.

As I posted in a thread just the other day:

These days I tend to only pirate PC games if they're quite old. But I don't pirate often and I certainly buy more games through steam than I pirate. Also, in loads of instances I've pirated a game and loved the singleplayer (world in conflict for instance), so I've then gone out and bought it for the multiplayer. Or pirated one game (shogun total war for instance) and have then bought every sequel in the series.

So did I really do a bad thing by pirating shogun total war and world in conflict? Creative Assembly lost out on money from one game. But because of that they got sales for 5 games (i didn't buy shogun 2 as I was still loving empire and I'm currently loving napoleon, but I didn't pirate shogun 2 either).

The same can be said of preowned games. A great example is Dead Space. Dead Space sold over 2 million copies. Dead Space 2 sold over 2 million copies in its first week! I bought Dead Space preowned, I bought Dead Space 2 new. The preowned copy of Dead Space got me into the series, it acted like advertising and made me want to buy the sequel. I will probably buy Dead Space 3 at launch too. So yeah, EA lost out on money for one game... but they got a sale for 2 other games at full launch price because of it.
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#46gjc2007Posted 11/11/2012 4:08:35 AM(edited)
From: Asellus | #160
I would venture to say that developers hate pirating more since that is illegal and no better than physically stealing a game.

You would be wrong.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-17-lionhead-pre-owned-worse-than-pc-piracy

I'd go with used sales simply because a person who buys a used game is a lost customer, they're in the store, money in hand, buying the game for maybe $5 less than what it sales for new. You'd better believe that makes publishers see red.


So he's/she/it (more on that below) basically butt hurt that the 1st Sale Doctrine exists....

Also, owned by Microsoft. Pretty blatant attempt at spitting online pass PR (doesn't tell you WHO was being interviewed). Not to mention that they definitely get more than their share of the used game dollars what with retailer exclusive bonuses and all that.

The publishers are basically telling you to suck their ****s and then thank them for it.

EDIT: Nvmind, It's Mike West (point stands. 1st party dev).
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#47RintonPosted 11/11/2012 4:13:13 AM
Callmege posted...

These days I tend to only pirate PC games if they're quite old. But I don't pirate often and I certainly buy more games through steam than I pirate. Also, in loads of instances I've pirated a game and loved the singleplayer (world in conflict for instance), so I've then gone out and bought it for the multiplayer. Or pirated one game (shogun total war for instance) and have then bought every sequel in the series.

So did I really do a bad thing by pirating shogun total war and world in conflict? Creative Assembly lost out on money from one game. But because of that they got sales for 5 games (i didn't buy shogun 2 as I was still loving empire and I'm currently loving napoleon, but I didn't pirate shogun 2 either).

The same can be said of preowned games. A great example is Dead Space. Dead Space sold over 2 million copies. Dead Space 2 sold over 2 million copies in its first week! I bought Dead Space preowned, I bought Dead Space 2 new. The preowned copy of Dead Space got me into the series, it acted like advertising and made me want to buy the sequel. I will probably buy Dead Space 3 at launch too. So yeah, EA lost out on money for one game... but they got a sale for 2 other games at full launch price because of it.


The problem is that I believe you're the minority here. Most pirates don't go back and buy the games after they've already got them for free. Hell, most of the pirates I know have been pirating games for well over a decade and buy such a small amount of titles legitimately that it's basically a non issue. The games those pirates do pay for are generally MMOs they'll play for a month and then discard.

Thievery is wrong no matter how you try to view it. You're screwing honest workers who create great products that entertain you. It's great that you're a part of a small minority that tries to buy games in spite of stealing them, but it IS a minority. Most pirates do it because they want to spend their money on weed, or alcohol, or dating, or any other number of things. Games are expensive, and it's much easier to steal them for free than budget for them.
#48hyjinx17Posted 11/11/2012 4:15:39 AM
Its basically choosing whether to steal the game or buy it from someone you know stole it
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#49anonymous46773Posted 11/11/2012 4:16:27 AM
Buying used because not only are you not supporting the publisher, you're supporting companies like GAME and Gamestop.
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#50RintonPosted 11/11/2012 4:18:56 AM
anonymous46773 posted...
Buying used because not only are you not supporting the publisher, you're supporting companies like GAME and Gamestop.


Why does supporting Gamestop make it worse than outright theft?

That doesn't really make any sense. Remember that a used game was bought new at some point and the developer DID make something off of it. The developer also gets to nickel and dime you with online passes and DLC regardless of whether you bought used. A pirated game is a dead end in that regard.